In 1917, the Balfour Declaration transferred rule of the middle-eastern region known as Palestine to the British Empire as a temporary national home for Jewish people. Between 1917 and 1948, Palestine was inhabited by Jewish immigrants who supported the idea of Zionism (the right of the Jewish people to return to the Holy Land) and Arabic-speaking Muslims and Christians who had occupied the land for many centuries. Tension began to form between the Arab Palestinians and the Jewish immigrants as both groups tried to take claim over the same portions of religiously-significant land.
In 1948, the Balfour Declaration was scheduled to expire and Great Britain would no longer rule Palestine. The question over what to do with the tumultuous country was turned over to the United Nations who would eventually decide to create the new country of Israel, specifically as a promised homeland for Jewish people. The new country was to be located across the various holy locations in which many events of the Old Testament occurred and, according to the Bible, was promised to the Jewish people by God.
U.S. President Harry Truman was the first world leader to officially recognize Israel as a legitimate Jewish state on May 14, 1948, only eleven minutes after its creation. His decision came after much discussion and advice from the White House staff who had differing viewpoints. Some advisors felt that creating a Jewish state was the only proper response to the holocaust and would benefit American interests. Others took the opposite view, concerned about that the creation of a Jewish state would create more conflict in an already tumultuous region.
Per my last thread where I said the United States invented Israel - they, we, did not. The current situation in Israel with the two divided territories was signed off by President Truman. “Invent” was the wrong word.
Also important, I think, to re-emphasize that while the Arab mythology is that the Romans had expelled all the Israelites and so they were simply taking over vacant land, Jerusalem and many other areas remained majority Jewish for the past 2,000 years.
If the Arabs - who invaded and colonized what they called Palestine - have some sort of "right of return," so, too, shouldn't the Jews?
The Arab mythology of Palestine relies on portraying the Jews as European colonizers, rather than the original inhabitants of a land that has been repeatedly been stolen from them, by the Babylonians, the Egyptians, the Persians, the Arabs, and the Ottomans.
Most of them were from Spain, having been expelled by the Inquisition. Hence, Shepardic Jews. Some probably wound up there as a result of the earlier Roman dispersal or the even earlier Babylonian captivity. Jews lived in Mecca at the time of Mohammed.
The accord between Saud and Netanyahu included passages permitting the right of return to the ancestral homeland on the peninsula by thousands upon thousands of Jews. A literal exodus. Nixed by the recent developments, the accord is a shambles.
Why not take away your real property and give it to the Gypsies or better yet the Thug people. But we leave you with a small, bite size chunk of property giving you a front row seat from which to view your own catastrophe? I'll throw in a pair of opera glasses gratis.
"Take away"? That's right - the Jews are "invaders," not actual natives who've been there 3,000 years. Probably mass converts from some make-believe Central Asian kingdom, eh? I know - let's call them "Khazars"! Perfect ...
I think, after you've had your land grabbed away from you so many times it's simply not yours anymore. Allow the Palestinians the unique right to open Indian bingo casinos with resort hotels and Las Vegas style attractions. Allow them to capitalize on their unique hospitality and peace will be restored to the Holyland. Is it not so?
Thank you, Sasha for the clarification and history. It is truly a terrible and centuries old saga. However, where Arabs have many lands and fellow country men to turn too, Israel and the Jewish people have none. They are alone in the world as a Jewish state and homeland and surrounded by enemies that want to erase them. while I understand history and context is important, the attacks on civilians and innocents yesterday in such a horrific and unforgettable way deserve swift revenge. I’ll never un see that Israeli German young woman face down in the truck bed while her knees and feet are facing upward and her hair is being pulled and spit on. I cry for our daughters and weep for justice. Those men don’t deserve historical context or pity.
They have none?!?! OMG, have you not been paying attention? We give billions each year to Israel. We poke our nose constantly into Middle Eastern affairs because of Israel. Israel has the biggest bully on the block on its side. How on earth is that "alone"?
I can't help but wonder if this atrocity is CIA funded. The timing is curious in light of Russia and China's recent efforts to bring peace to the Middle East and Africa. Is this just an brutal attack on Israel. or this even more sinister? Maybe like stirring up trouble for the BRICS initiative which threatens the US fiat dollar. Pray for peace and that this doesn't erupt into something on a world scale.
I don’t personally think so, Peter. This is an old conflict. The Arabs & Jews ignited their dislike for each other in 20th century around 1929, over disputes of access to The Temple Mount and the Western Wall:
This all began well before creation of CIA. This latest spasm of violence could be connected to Saudi Arabia inching closer to formally recognizing the State of Israel. Iran doesn’t like the House of Saud all that much, their mullahs like to chant ‘death to Israel’ and Iran is state-sponsor of Hamas, who did these attacks
That doesn't necessarily mean the CIA wasn't involved in this particular event. I tend to doubt it because there's enough hate without them involved, but they aren't above exploiting such grievances.
Also we poke our nose into the Middle East because they can’t keep their hands off their own people and can’t keep the peace. Yes we give billions to Israel bc they are the only democracy the size of NJ in a stew of Arab dictatorships the size of the US continent.
That's their business. You want the rest of the world deciding that we mistreat black people in the US and marching on our country to redistribute white people's wealth? I didn't think so.
Oh, good grief. You know nothing about me. And you're starting to look really desperate. No wonder this country is in the situation it is in if this is the best "debate" we can have. I got right back to *you* are responsible for where we are, whether you want to admit it or not. This deranged lashing out is exactly what the system you rail against feeds on. But go ahead. Keep doing it.
Last time I checked the US is a constitutional republic. We aren’t a Jewish state or a Muslim theocracy. It went over your head but the US is not a majority Jewish country.
Stop the stupid. We aren’t majority Jewish- Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, South Africa, IRAN, Saudi’s Arabia and Jordan all play active roles in propping up a terrorist state to subdue Israel. The US doesn’t give billions to Arab states? Bitch please
PS. South Africa is not an Arab country. If you don't know that, perhaps you should do some reading and listening rather than, well, what you're doing.
Despite not describing yourself as a “journalist”, you clearly hold yourself to a standard journalism should aspire to meet. Well done. I continue to be grateful for your work!
For anyone interested in the ancient and more recent history of Israel I recommend James Michener's THE SOURCE which was the bestselling novel of 1965.
The Source is really a monumental book of historical fiction. Highly recommend. For interested readers, the story is laid out as a 1960’s archaeological dig of a ‘mound’ in present day Israel. The first item uncovered is a bullet from the 1948 war. A chapter is then told w/ that object found in the narrative. As they dig deeper, more objects found, and farther back in historical record revealed. It’s a remarkable read and IMO, Michener’s best.
Agreed. It may be the best read of the 20th century. There are a few terrific surprises in the last chapters of the book. In 10-15 years I may read it for a third time.
Thank you! I was looking for a good book to help me with this issue! I studied this issue in college intensely and took my own thoughts from the actual history that I learned, but 30 years later.....I have forgotten the specifics! I was getting ready to pick up Exodus from Uris, he is excellent as well, to refresh my memory. It is a tragedy.
Historical fiction is a great way to learn a broader understanding of a period or issue. The Source might be the best historical fiction novel ever written.
When Israel gave up the Gaza Strip for peace it had farms, greenhouses, businesses that the "Palestinians" could have used to become self-sufficient. But they destroyed much of the infrastructure and spent funds on rockets and tunnels and other weapons to attack Israel. They have proved themselves unable of self governance.
Any comments regarding the State of Israel and that of Palestine is comparable to touching a high-voltage line....the shock is profound and lingering. The Internet has created an access to info that demands research from multiple sites and even those efforts can leave one way short of the mark. The area that comprises Israel is miniscule. More than 5k years of written history in this historic area. I am working my way thru my second reading of the Five Books of Moses (I was born and raised Catholic). Vast areas of the world we inhabit are filled with immature cultures that make ZERO effort to grasp the true nature of the history of mankind. They attempt to view the history of man thru the rose colored prism of the modern lens. THAT view is fraught with distortion, narcissism, bigotry, a profound lack of empathy and a total lack of comprehension of the meaning of the word L O V E! These 'tribes' might possess an 'education' but an education that has failed them, miserably. I do not have an answer to the obvious question...How do we make it stop?
While the history of Israel and the region is important and interesting, it really isn’t relevant to the recent terrorist attacks on civilians. What has happened in the last two days is a barbarism that cannot be justified by any historical accounts. Brutalizing and killing elderly people, mothers,and children like this is wrong and evil no matter what happened 10, 1000, or 1,000 years ago.
Personally my ignorance of the history of Israel and the area is profound and I suspect 98% of Americans share this ignorance equally. Hopefully this ignorance can be rectified in due course.
What is important now is ending this brutal attack and ensuing it never happens again. If the Palestinian people expected to gain support for their cause, they have failed miserably.
That’s correct. The Romans renamed the country to Palestine (which was Latin for Philistia ... aka the philistines) to remove the identity of the Jewish people from their homeland. You can read about the Philistines in the Bible. They too were a ruthless people.
I grew up in the aftermath of WW 2 in a Jewish household where we all believed that Zionism was part of keeping the faith. I even belonged to a Zionist youth org and attended their summer camp in 1967 right after the 6 Day War. It was for us a time of great celebration where it felt like the victory was a step for all Jews towards liberation. In all honesty I was so naive not ever considering what the inhabitants who were there before the great Aliyah (Divine immigration) had to endure.
It took a number of years and an unbiased perspective to start to see that establishing the state of Israel has been a total disaster in many ways. And when you see how AIPAC and the ADL have captured US policy by demanding unwavering allegiance by every member of Congress, it's understandable why so many people are enraged by the abuse of power by this little nation.
And then there is the attack on the USS Liberty; most shocking in case you are unaware of it. The survivors and families of the victims will certainly never forget it. I feel that every American need to watch this video which is one of the darkest days in American military history -https://youtu.be/tx72tAWVcoM?si=0iaKUWViPuMwlK2k
This is not to excuse the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty, but rather to provide context.
The USS Liberty was a USA spy vessel (monitoring both sides of the war) and was attacked ~ 25km off shore of Egypt (in international waters) by Israel , during the 1967, 6-day war, of which both Egypt and Syria had attacked Israel. Israel did formally apologize to the USA for the attack. There is a theory that Israel did this attack for 2 reasons:
1. Because USS Liberty transmission could be detected by Soviet Union, and those transmissions passed onward to both Egypt & Syria. Cold War was really hot at this time
2. Israel occupied/attacked the Golan Heights as part of this war (heights overlooking Syria) to prevent attack from high ground ever again — and Israel did not want the USS Liberty to be ‘hacked’ and this info tipped off the Syria OR to Egypt. Syria because they could prepare for Golan attack. And Egypt so they would not know the southern Israel border was more lightly defended while energies were pouring into Golan in north
My unsubstantiated theory is that Israel considered the USS Liberty an uncontrollable entity amidst a war for their existence as a nation, which had to be neutralized to help ward off future existential attacks, and could be apologized for later in exchange for strategic, long term gains
There are many perspectives regarding the attack and subsequent whitewashing of the information. Israeli officials said it was a grave error but looking at the facts shows otherwise. The best explanation I’ve heard is based on Israel’s statement prior to the war that they wouldn’t be the first to strike. Intelligence gathered by the ship proved they did attack earliest which would have made them look bad on the world stage. So they attempted to destroy all evidence, kill all the people onboard and hope that they’d be able to put the blame on Egypt. But that never happened so they were caught between a rock and a hard place. Even US Sec of State Dean Rusk condemned the attack but the news media after initially reporting it backed off and allowed history to forget about it. They’ve done a good job since almost no one is aware that this horrific atrocity ever happened.
Apparently since the beginning of biblical time people have been murdering each other starting with Cain murdering his brother Abel. I wonder if it’s lost on everyone that in Islam, the story of Cain and Abel serves as an admonition against murder promoting sanctity of human life. I thought we are lost now but we have been lost from the very beginning.
Jeff - Thanks for sharing your perspective and the link. The video is gut wrenching and disturbing. I’m still processing this. The level and scale of corruption and betrayal in both governments is only surpassed by their complete disregard for life. I’m dumbfounded.
Truman did the right thing you mean. Have you researched Saddam's uncle? He was a Muslim SS officer and a paperclip type of thing happened there to be sure.The modern Palestinian movement started here and manipulated by Nazi propaganda that was very much at play when considering the Middle Eastern front in Iraq and Egypt during ww2. Muslim Brotherhood. They had a mutual enemy.
.."The story is told that Saddam Hussein's uncle (who published a pamphlet entitled, Three Whom God Should Not Have Created: Persians, Jews, and Flies), had tutored young Saddam on nationalist politics and the notion that the Arab people would receive justice under a strong leader who would unify the Arabs and expel foreigners. Saddam was told that he was that leader. Now, many years later, it must have seemed to him that his uncle's teachings were coming true. (Post, Jerrold, "The Defining Moment of Saddam's Life," in Stanley Renshon, ed., The Political Psychology of the Gulf War (Pittsburgh: University of Pittsburgh Press, 1993), pp. 50–51.) Rather than being cowered, confronting the world seemed to move Hussein into an opportunistic mode...."
I think a few points are relevant here and fair; every nation in existence today took the land from someone else (eg US took it from the Native Indians and the Native Indians took it from other tribes before them; etc; pick your nation and if you trace it back 10,000 years you will see multiple takeovers of the land). Palestinians have been brutal to Israelis and vice versa; Israeli have killed thousands more Palestinians since 1967 than vice versa. We call our friendlies “commandos” and their friendlies “terrorists” but both do the same thing by killing men, women, children. Finally, in my view we should reject the neocon warmongering messaging that the US needs to send men and money; if you disagree the by all means fly over and join up with your favorite side. But leave us fly over country deplorable veterans and our kids out of your war that you yourself and your kids won’t join.
Thank you. I always sensed that you care about truth, and your willingness to issue a quick correction (something all too rare these days) is a further indication of that.
The important thing to remember about history is it can be manufactured out of whole cloth especially by historians because if you're not a historian why bother? You can't sue or indict criminally a deceitful historian or their pupils. Have a nice day.
History is the record of human ideas and actions, and the consequences. One of our great blessings as a species is that we have the ability to learn from the successes and failures of those who came before us. We can apply those lessons in the present, not having to “reinvent the wheel” with each generation.
The left does not see history as a tool for learning. They have no desire to learn from the past. They see no need for it, since they already have everything all figured out.
Instead, they see history as a store of grievances to be mined for weapons in justifying any acts, no matter how barbarous, that further their agenda. This kind of thinking has already lead to disaster, and they are not done yet.
Thank you Sasha for the correction and the timeline. I absolutely love that you did the research and corrected yourself as this issue is important and complex and most people are not educated on it. Hell, I am very fearful this may lead to WWIII.
Wow, no mention of Irgun, the Deir Yassin massacre, or even the King David Hotel. Hey Sasha, did you know that, according to British records, property ownership in the land known as Palestine, acknowledged in multiple contemporary European maps as Palestine, was approximately 3% Jewish-owned and 97% Arab (not necessarily Moslem)-owned? Where did you get this timeline, the AIPAC website? See if you can find Before Their Diaspora, by Edward Said (if all remaining copies haven't been burned yet). Be careful, though. Any criticism of Israel, no matter how justified, will earn you the label of anti-Semite. Kind of like criticizing Democrats will earn you the label of racist. Weirdly symmetrical, right?
I'm a die-hard conservative. Kinda funny how other so-called conservatives bleat about property rights for everyone except the Palestinians forced out of their homes in the 30s and 40s. If zionists want to claim might makes right, and possession is 9/10 of the law, fine, but don't make us vomit by trying to claim the moral high ground.
In recognition of Indigenous People’s Day, can you recognize the irony of your criticism of Israel. I’m pretty sure I’ve “owned” property that was formerly occupied by indigenous people and that’s okay? How about you? I’m not saying Palestinians don’t deserve all the things every human aspires for, so how do know who “owned” what? I’m a die hard nothing trying to make sense of this. Are die-hard xyz’s responsible for extremism? Is that the definition of die-hard?
I’m just waking up to “civilized men” doing unspeakable things to each other in the name of some misguided justification.
I don't know about yours, but my Old Testament mentions that when Abraham made his journey from Ur to his destination, there were some folks already there. Or are we revising the OT now?
Be that as it may.....anyone into Biblical Research, I would strongly urge to read Hebrew Scholar, Mauro Biglino's book "Gods of The Bible"! He clearly demonstrates that key words in the Old Testament were incorrectly translated giving us a skewed version of what the O.T. stories were really about!! Had it been correctly translated, we would not even HAVE this problem today!! Anglican Priest, Paul A. Wallis, has a series of Eden books out that help us understand what was going on. Billy Carson of 4biddenknowledge has had some valuable input, as well!! Matt La Croix has been exposing some new finds in Turkey, found underwater in Lake Van, that add interesting bits to our supposed Timeline!! As the 79 year old dau. of a Baptist Minister I would like to submit that I have come to the conclusion that The Bible has been one of the best tools in The Toolbox of our Controllers. Time to wake up!!!
So the people as a whole in the region were not given a choice in the matter. The decision was imposed on them. Ask yourself in what other situation that would be looked upon kindly.
Lots of examples of happy natives having their land formed in to a new country by those more powerful than themselves! Eg The Irish in Ireland loved that the Protestant English took over there. Then there are the happy Koreans; happy the USSR and US agreed to divide their county on the 38th parallel. The South Africans like the Brits for taking over down there; ditto the Aboriginals in Australia. Let’s not bring up the Neanderthals and their happiness in being made extinct by Homo Sapians. So you see, Lillia, across time and space people are happy to be jettisoned out of their homes. So what’s up with these Palestinians?! Everyone gets jettisoned sooner or later.
Perhaps the migrant invasion being imposed on the American people by the Biden Administration? When can we direct rockets and paragliders onto migrant camps and four star hotels in NYC? I’m expecting your full support for natives not given a choice.
The dualistic, limited political system we have given quarter to gave us Biden. It's not being imposed without our collective will. You just refuse to recognize your role in it.
The modern country of Israel brought itself into existence through fighting the British. Israel declared its independence from the British Empire on May 14, 1948.
The United Nations officially recognized the modern state of Israel on May 11, 1949.
Yep, fighting the Brits by a campaign of ruthless terrorism. I always envied my dad having stayed at the King David Hotel during WWII, but glad he wasn't there when the Israelites blew half of it to smithereens.
Following WW2, nearly every corner of the British empire was being ‘reclaimed’ by its indigenous inhabitants and breaking free from British Empire, not just Israel. All of these countries threw off the ‘ruthless’ British colonial rule:
All those countries, except one, got their independence due to struggles by the indigenous populations. A large percentage of the 'Israeli' terrs were recent immigrants from Europe. It's true that the Jews were in Israel before the Arabs, but recent archeology in Israel and Lebanon has recovered DNA from Canaanite tombs, which appears to be still in existence in living people in the area. They have the first claim on Israel. I mean, if we have to go back thousands of years, let's do it.
The comments from the Truman library are a bit simplistic. It leaves out that the Jews in Palestine during British rule were mostly European immigrants. They tend to whitewash things to make the person who set up the library look good. That's why the government classifies documents.
Gut feeling tells me the elite created Israel in 1948 to conquer the middle east. To put their intelligence agencies right in the heart of the Middle East. They destroyed Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, captured Egypt and killed Gaddafi and captured Libya, now they want Iran.
Peter, IMO Israel was created by the Jewish people because they had just endured the greatest Pogram (Hitler’s Final Solution) in a very long list of Pograms (spasms of violence against Jews) that go back to Crusades and before that the Romans. Jewish people never wanted to endure this kind of Pogram again. You might say that finally got fed up once Teutonic thought was weaponized to wipe them off the face of Europe. Check out the historical record of Pograms across Europe through the ages in this link:
Peter: define "the elite". who supposedly created Israel to "conquer the middle east", and then follow that with your definition of the "they" who : "destroyed Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, captured Egypt [WUT??], killed Gaddafi [that would be Hillary Clinton] , captured Libya and now wants Iran". Would they all perhaps be certain unnamed parties you just don't like?
If you say the US invented Israel, you might as well say the Nazi party invented it. Israel was created by the incredibly hard labor of refugees who “made the desert bloom” where generations of Palestinian leaders had let the land dry out and spoil.
Maybe so, but doesn't this seem to be better organized than their usual stuff? I sincerely hope you are right because the alterative is even more evil than what has just happened.
Also important, I think, to re-emphasize that while the Arab mythology is that the Romans had expelled all the Israelites and so they were simply taking over vacant land, Jerusalem and many other areas remained majority Jewish for the past 2,000 years.
If the Arabs - who invaded and colonized what they called Palestine - have some sort of "right of return," so, too, shouldn't the Jews?
The Arab mythology of Palestine relies on portraying the Jews as European colonizers, rather than the original inhabitants of a land that has been repeatedly been stolen from them, by the Babylonians, the Egyptians, the Persians, the Arabs, and the Ottomans.
Not to mention that about half the Jewish population of Israel were the Jews expelled from Arab countries after 1948 or their descendants.
Including Jews who had lived in places like Iran, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, etc., since before Islam even existed ... what about their "Right of Return"?
Most of them were from Spain, having been expelled by the Inquisition. Hence, Shepardic Jews. Some probably wound up there as a result of the earlier Roman dispersal or the even earlier Babylonian captivity. Jews lived in Mecca at the time of Mohammed.
The accord between Saud and Netanyahu included passages permitting the right of return to the ancestral homeland on the peninsula by thousands upon thousands of Jews. A literal exodus. Nixed by the recent developments, the accord is a shambles.
Why not take away your real property and give it to the Gypsies or better yet the Thug people. But we leave you with a small, bite size chunk of property giving you a front row seat from which to view your own catastrophe? I'll throw in a pair of opera glasses gratis.
"Take away"? That's right - the Jews are "invaders," not actual natives who've been there 3,000 years. Probably mass converts from some make-believe Central Asian kingdom, eh? I know - let's call them "Khazars"! Perfect ...
I think, after you've had your land grabbed away from you so many times it's simply not yours anymore. Allow the Palestinians the unique right to open Indian bingo casinos with resort hotels and Las Vegas style attractions. Allow them to capitalize on their unique hospitality and peace will be restored to the Holyland. Is it not so?
Fair.
I give you credit for doing your research.
I would too if it had been done.
She made a correction. Customary to give credit when due
Thank you, Sasha for the clarification and history. It is truly a terrible and centuries old saga. However, where Arabs have many lands and fellow country men to turn too, Israel and the Jewish people have none. They are alone in the world as a Jewish state and homeland and surrounded by enemies that want to erase them. while I understand history and context is important, the attacks on civilians and innocents yesterday in such a horrific and unforgettable way deserve swift revenge. I’ll never un see that Israeli German young woman face down in the truck bed while her knees and feet are facing upward and her hair is being pulled and spit on. I cry for our daughters and weep for justice. Those men don’t deserve historical context or pity.
They have none?!?! OMG, have you not been paying attention? We give billions each year to Israel. We poke our nose constantly into Middle Eastern affairs because of Israel. Israel has the biggest bully on the block on its side. How on earth is that "alone"?
I can't help but wonder if this atrocity is CIA funded. The timing is curious in light of Russia and China's recent efforts to bring peace to the Middle East and Africa. Is this just an brutal attack on Israel. or this even more sinister? Maybe like stirring up trouble for the BRICS initiative which threatens the US fiat dollar. Pray for peace and that this doesn't erupt into something on a world scale.
I put nothing past anyone anymore.
I don’t personally think so, Peter. This is an old conflict. The Arabs & Jews ignited their dislike for each other in 20th century around 1929, over disputes of access to The Temple Mount and the Western Wall:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots
This all began well before creation of CIA. This latest spasm of violence could be connected to Saudi Arabia inching closer to formally recognizing the State of Israel. Iran doesn’t like the House of Saud all that much, their mullahs like to chant ‘death to Israel’ and Iran is state-sponsor of Hamas, who did these attacks
That doesn't necessarily mean the CIA wasn't involved in this particular event. I tend to doubt it because there's enough hate without them involved, but they aren't above exploiting such grievances.
Totally agree. Anything is possible. I just don’t think everything that occurs is part of a grand design, controlled by men/elites/intel agencies.
Also we poke our nose into the Middle East because they can’t keep their hands off their own people and can’t keep the peace. Yes we give billions to Israel bc they are the only democracy the size of NJ in a stew of Arab dictatorships the size of the US continent.
That's their business. You want the rest of the world deciding that we mistreat black people in the US and marching on our country to redistribute white people's wealth? I didn't think so.
LMAO? Marching on our country to redistribute white wealth? People like you have been doing that since 1850!
Oh, good grief. You know nothing about me. And you're starting to look really desperate. No wonder this country is in the situation it is in if this is the best "debate" we can have. I got right back to *you* are responsible for where we are, whether you want to admit it or not. This deranged lashing out is exactly what the system you rail against feeds on. But go ahead. Keep doing it.
Last time I checked the US is a constitutional republic. We aren’t a Jewish state or a Muslim theocracy. It went over your head but the US is not a majority Jewish country.
What the hell does that have to do with anything?
Stop the stupid. We aren’t majority Jewish- Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, South Africa, IRAN, Saudi’s Arabia and Jordan all play active roles in propping up a terrorist state to subdue Israel. The US doesn’t give billions to Arab states? Bitch please
PS. South Africa is not an Arab country. If you don't know that, perhaps you should do some reading and listening rather than, well, what you're doing.
And I asked you what the hell that has to do with anything? You still haven't given me an answer.
And please refrain from the name calling. It makes you look very unserious, which you are, but you could attempt to avoid it for a bit.
Sasha nice correction. 👏
Despite not describing yourself as a “journalist”, you clearly hold yourself to a standard journalism should aspire to meet. Well done. I continue to be grateful for your work!
For anyone interested in the ancient and more recent history of Israel I recommend James Michener's THE SOURCE which was the bestselling novel of 1965.
The Source is really a monumental book of historical fiction. Highly recommend. For interested readers, the story is laid out as a 1960’s archaeological dig of a ‘mound’ in present day Israel. The first item uncovered is a bullet from the 1948 war. A chapter is then told w/ that object found in the narrative. As they dig deeper, more objects found, and farther back in historical record revealed. It’s a remarkable read and IMO, Michener’s best.
Agreed. It may be the best read of the 20th century. There are a few terrific surprises in the last chapters of the book. In 10-15 years I may read it for a third time.
Agree, it was riveting!
Thank you! I was looking for a good book to help me with this issue! I studied this issue in college intensely and took my own thoughts from the actual history that I learned, but 30 years later.....I have forgotten the specifics! I was getting ready to pick up Exodus from Uris, he is excellent as well, to refresh my memory. It is a tragedy.
Historical fiction is a great way to learn a broader understanding of a period or issue. The Source might be the best historical fiction novel ever written.
When Israel gave up the Gaza Strip for peace it had farms, greenhouses, businesses that the "Palestinians" could have used to become self-sufficient. But they destroyed much of the infrastructure and spent funds on rockets and tunnels and other weapons to attack Israel. They have proved themselves unable of self governance.
Corrections are so rare these days, it’s become refreshing to see one. Thanks Sasha, keep fighting the good fight!
Any comments regarding the State of Israel and that of Palestine is comparable to touching a high-voltage line....the shock is profound and lingering. The Internet has created an access to info that demands research from multiple sites and even those efforts can leave one way short of the mark. The area that comprises Israel is miniscule. More than 5k years of written history in this historic area. I am working my way thru my second reading of the Five Books of Moses (I was born and raised Catholic). Vast areas of the world we inhabit are filled with immature cultures that make ZERO effort to grasp the true nature of the history of mankind. They attempt to view the history of man thru the rose colored prism of the modern lens. THAT view is fraught with distortion, narcissism, bigotry, a profound lack of empathy and a total lack of comprehension of the meaning of the word L O V E! These 'tribes' might possess an 'education' but an education that has failed them, miserably. I do not have an answer to the obvious question...How do we make it stop?
May want to check out Psalm 83 and how that has been fulfilled prophecy since 48. It has to be fulfilled before Ezekiel 38.
While the history of Israel and the region is important and interesting, it really isn’t relevant to the recent terrorist attacks on civilians. What has happened in the last two days is a barbarism that cannot be justified by any historical accounts. Brutalizing and killing elderly people, mothers,and children like this is wrong and evil no matter what happened 10, 1000, or 1,000 years ago.
Personally my ignorance of the history of Israel and the area is profound and I suspect 98% of Americans share this ignorance equally. Hopefully this ignorance can be rectified in due course.
What is important now is ending this brutal attack and ensuing it never happens again. If the Palestinian people expected to gain support for their cause, they have failed miserably.
Your conclusion is premature. Time will tell.
Thank you for this correction, Sasha.
Palestinian "Black September" group disruption of the 1972 Olympics and subsequent murder of 11 Israeli athletes merits a mention.
Not to mention the PLO Skyjacking and raid on Entebbe. Charles Bronson FTW.
The leader of that raid who died there was Netanyahu's elder brother.
Thanks for this. One item left out is the concept of "Palestine" is a Roman construct intended to wipe Judea off the map and out of history.
That’s correct. The Romans renamed the country to Palestine (which was Latin for Philistia ... aka the philistines) to remove the identity of the Jewish people from their homeland. You can read about the Philistines in the Bible. They too were a ruthless people.
Incidentally, the historical Philistines were of Greek heritage, and occupied what is now known as Gaza.
That was the region the tribe of Dan was supposed to subdue in the conquest of Canaan. They didn't.
Interesting about philistines being of Greek Heritage, etc. Thanks.
Nice circle back! Thank you
Thank you, Sasha! Your willingness to accept corrective criticism is much appreciated.
And worthy of respect!
I grew up in the aftermath of WW 2 in a Jewish household where we all believed that Zionism was part of keeping the faith. I even belonged to a Zionist youth org and attended their summer camp in 1967 right after the 6 Day War. It was for us a time of great celebration where it felt like the victory was a step for all Jews towards liberation. In all honesty I was so naive not ever considering what the inhabitants who were there before the great Aliyah (Divine immigration) had to endure.
It took a number of years and an unbiased perspective to start to see that establishing the state of Israel has been a total disaster in many ways. And when you see how AIPAC and the ADL have captured US policy by demanding unwavering allegiance by every member of Congress, it's understandable why so many people are enraged by the abuse of power by this little nation.
And then there is the attack on the USS Liberty; most shocking in case you are unaware of it. The survivors and families of the victims will certainly never forget it. I feel that every American need to watch this video which is one of the darkest days in American military history -https://youtu.be/tx72tAWVcoM?si=0iaKUWViPuMwlK2k
This is not to excuse the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty, but rather to provide context.
The USS Liberty was a USA spy vessel (monitoring both sides of the war) and was attacked ~ 25km off shore of Egypt (in international waters) by Israel , during the 1967, 6-day war, of which both Egypt and Syria had attacked Israel. Israel did formally apologize to the USA for the attack. There is a theory that Israel did this attack for 2 reasons:
1. Because USS Liberty transmission could be detected by Soviet Union, and those transmissions passed onward to both Egypt & Syria. Cold War was really hot at this time
2. Israel occupied/attacked the Golan Heights as part of this war (heights overlooking Syria) to prevent attack from high ground ever again — and Israel did not want the USS Liberty to be ‘hacked’ and this info tipped off the Syria OR to Egypt. Syria because they could prepare for Golan attack. And Egypt so they would not know the southern Israel border was more lightly defended while energies were pouring into Golan in north
My unsubstantiated theory is that Israel considered the USS Liberty an uncontrollable entity amidst a war for their existence as a nation, which had to be neutralized to help ward off future existential attacks, and could be apologized for later in exchange for strategic, long term gains
There are many perspectives regarding the attack and subsequent whitewashing of the information. Israeli officials said it was a grave error but looking at the facts shows otherwise. The best explanation I’ve heard is based on Israel’s statement prior to the war that they wouldn’t be the first to strike. Intelligence gathered by the ship proved they did attack earliest which would have made them look bad on the world stage. So they attempted to destroy all evidence, kill all the people onboard and hope that they’d be able to put the blame on Egypt. But that never happened so they were caught between a rock and a hard place. Even US Sec of State Dean Rusk condemned the attack but the news media after initially reporting it backed off and allowed history to forget about it. They’ve done a good job since almost no one is aware that this horrific atrocity ever happened.
Thanks Jeff for the reminder of Israel’s attack on a US ship because these relationships are not as simple as some would have is believe.
Apparently since the beginning of biblical time people have been murdering each other starting with Cain murdering his brother Abel. I wonder if it’s lost on everyone that in Islam, the story of Cain and Abel serves as an admonition against murder promoting sanctity of human life. I thought we are lost now but we have been lost from the very beginning.
Jeff - Thanks for sharing your perspective and the link. The video is gut wrenching and disturbing. I’m still processing this. The level and scale of corruption and betrayal in both governments is only surpassed by their complete disregard for life. I’m dumbfounded.
Truman did the right thing you mean. Have you researched Saddam's uncle? He was a Muslim SS officer and a paperclip type of thing happened there to be sure.The modern Palestinian movement started here and manipulated by Nazi propaganda that was very much at play when considering the Middle Eastern front in Iraq and Egypt during ww2. Muslim Brotherhood. They had a mutual enemy.
.."The story is told that Saddam Hussein's uncle (who published a pamphlet entitled, Three Whom God Should Not Have Created: Persians, Jews, and Flies), had tutored young Saddam on nationalist politics and the notion that the Arab people would receive justice under a strong leader who would unify the Arabs and expel foreigners. Saddam was told that he was that leader. Now, many years later, it must have seemed to him that his uncle's teachings were coming true. (Post, Jerrold, "The Defining Moment of Saddam's Life," in Stanley Renshon, ed., The Political Psychology of the Gulf War (Pittsburgh: University of Pittsburgh Press, 1993), pp. 50–51.) Rather than being cowered, confronting the world seemed to move Hussein into an opportunistic mode...."
https://wwnorton.com/college/polisci/lenses/protect/print/cs_pg_hussein3.htm
Amazon.com: History - Saddam and the Third Reich https://www.amazon.com/History-Saddam-Third-Reich/dp/B001CU9C8I
....
Thank you for this information Sasha period I prefer BC and AD though as opposed to BCE.....
I think a few points are relevant here and fair; every nation in existence today took the land from someone else (eg US took it from the Native Indians and the Native Indians took it from other tribes before them; etc; pick your nation and if you trace it back 10,000 years you will see multiple takeovers of the land). Palestinians have been brutal to Israelis and vice versa; Israeli have killed thousands more Palestinians since 1967 than vice versa. We call our friendlies “commandos” and their friendlies “terrorists” but both do the same thing by killing men, women, children. Finally, in my view we should reject the neocon warmongering messaging that the US needs to send men and money; if you disagree the by all means fly over and join up with your favorite side. But leave us fly over country deplorable veterans and our kids out of your war that you yourself and your kids won’t join.
Psalm 122:6
Very pertinent, beautiful psalm. Thanks
Thank you. I always sensed that you care about truth, and your willingness to issue a quick correction (something all too rare these days) is a further indication of that.
This should be between 1979 and 1982, from the linked website:
1981 Israel Air Force destroys Iraqi nuclear reactor just before it is to become operative.
Thank you Sasha! Very clear articulation of our historical claim to Eretz Yisrael.
The important thing to remember about history is it can be manufactured out of whole cloth especially by historians because if you're not a historian why bother? You can't sue or indict criminally a deceitful historian or their pupils. Have a nice day.
History is the record of human ideas and actions, and the consequences. One of our great blessings as a species is that we have the ability to learn from the successes and failures of those who came before us. We can apply those lessons in the present, not having to “reinvent the wheel” with each generation.
The left does not see history as a tool for learning. They have no desire to learn from the past. They see no need for it, since they already have everything all figured out.
Instead, they see history as a store of grievances to be mined for weapons in justifying any acts, no matter how barbarous, that further their agenda. This kind of thinking has already lead to disaster, and they are not done yet.
Thank you Sasha for the correction and the timeline. I absolutely love that you did the research and corrected yourself as this issue is important and complex and most people are not educated on it. Hell, I am very fearful this may lead to WWIII.
So nobody’s mentioning in the current situation that Biden gave $6Billion dollars to Iran.
Elephant in the living room .
Wow, no mention of Irgun, the Deir Yassin massacre, or even the King David Hotel. Hey Sasha, did you know that, according to British records, property ownership in the land known as Palestine, acknowledged in multiple contemporary European maps as Palestine, was approximately 3% Jewish-owned and 97% Arab (not necessarily Moslem)-owned? Where did you get this timeline, the AIPAC website? See if you can find Before Their Diaspora, by Edward Said (if all remaining copies haven't been burned yet). Be careful, though. Any criticism of Israel, no matter how justified, will earn you the label of anti-Semite. Kind of like criticizing Democrats will earn you the label of racist. Weirdly symmetrical, right?
I'm a die-hard conservative. Kinda funny how other so-called conservatives bleat about property rights for everyone except the Palestinians forced out of their homes in the 30s and 40s. If zionists want to claim might makes right, and possession is 9/10 of the law, fine, but don't make us vomit by trying to claim the moral high ground.
In recognition of Indigenous People’s Day, can you recognize the irony of your criticism of Israel. I’m pretty sure I’ve “owned” property that was formerly occupied by indigenous people and that’s okay? How about you? I’m not saying Palestinians don’t deserve all the things every human aspires for, so how do know who “owned” what? I’m a die hard nothing trying to make sense of this. Are die-hard xyz’s responsible for extremism? Is that the definition of die-hard?
I’m just waking up to “civilized men” doing unspeakable things to each other in the name of some misguided justification.
I don't know about yours, but my Old Testament mentions that when Abraham made his journey from Ur to his destination, there were some folks already there. Or are we revising the OT now?
Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge. The more I read, the more inquisitive I become…
Be that as it may.....anyone into Biblical Research, I would strongly urge to read Hebrew Scholar, Mauro Biglino's book "Gods of The Bible"! He clearly demonstrates that key words in the Old Testament were incorrectly translated giving us a skewed version of what the O.T. stories were really about!! Had it been correctly translated, we would not even HAVE this problem today!! Anglican Priest, Paul A. Wallis, has a series of Eden books out that help us understand what was going on. Billy Carson of 4biddenknowledge has had some valuable input, as well!! Matt La Croix has been exposing some new finds in Turkey, found underwater in Lake Van, that add interesting bits to our supposed Timeline!! As the 79 year old dau. of a Baptist Minister I would like to submit that I have come to the conclusion that The Bible has been one of the best tools in The Toolbox of our Controllers. Time to wake up!!!
Pretty sure the Bible has been abused before the ink on the first pages dried.
So the people as a whole in the region were not given a choice in the matter. The decision was imposed on them. Ask yourself in what other situation that would be looked upon kindly.
Lots of examples of happy natives having their land formed in to a new country by those more powerful than themselves! Eg The Irish in Ireland loved that the Protestant English took over there. Then there are the happy Koreans; happy the USSR and US agreed to divide their county on the 38th parallel. The South Africans like the Brits for taking over down there; ditto the Aboriginals in Australia. Let’s not bring up the Neanderthals and their happiness in being made extinct by Homo Sapians. So you see, Lillia, across time and space people are happy to be jettisoned out of their homes. So what’s up with these Palestinians?! Everyone gets jettisoned sooner or later.
I know, crazy huh?
Perhaps the migrant invasion being imposed on the American people by the Biden Administration? When can we direct rockets and paragliders onto migrant camps and four star hotels in NYC? I’m expecting your full support for natives not given a choice.
The dualistic, limited political system we have given quarter to gave us Biden. It's not being imposed without our collective will. You just refuse to recognize your role in it.
I play no role in the invasion of my country and the murder of my people except to speak out against it whenever I can.
Anyone who has spent virtually no time, including me, challenging the illusory two-party system in this country has contributed to this outcome.
The modern country of Israel brought itself into existence through fighting the British. Israel declared its independence from the British Empire on May 14, 1948.
The United Nations officially recognized the modern state of Israel on May 11, 1949.
Yep, fighting the Brits by a campaign of ruthless terrorism. I always envied my dad having stayed at the King David Hotel during WWII, but glad he wasn't there when the Israelites blew half of it to smithereens.
He wasn't on the Liberty either.
That's right, fighting the British with everything available, which wasn't much since the British have most things to the people connected to the oil.
Ask your dad about when America fought the British fur independence.
Following WW2, nearly every corner of the British empire was being ‘reclaimed’ by its indigenous inhabitants and breaking free from British Empire, not just Israel. All of these countries threw off the ‘ruthless’ British colonial rule:
India/Pakistan
Burma
Sri Lanka
Palestine
Malaysia
Singapore
Cyprus
Uganda
Nigeria
Sierra Leone
Kenya
All those countries, except one, got their independence due to struggles by the indigenous populations. A large percentage of the 'Israeli' terrs were recent immigrants from Europe. It's true that the Jews were in Israel before the Arabs, but recent archeology in Israel and Lebanon has recovered DNA from Canaanite tombs, which appears to be still in existence in living people in the area. They have the first claim on Israel. I mean, if we have to go back thousands of years, let's do it.
Thank you for correcting your mistake
The comments from the Truman library are a bit simplistic. It leaves out that the Jews in Palestine during British rule were mostly European immigrants. They tend to whitewash things to make the person who set up the library look good. That's why the government classifies documents.
Gut feeling tells me the elite created Israel in 1948 to conquer the middle east. To put their intelligence agencies right in the heart of the Middle East. They destroyed Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, captured Egypt and killed Gaddafi and captured Libya, now they want Iran.
With a gut that far from actuality, you might wish to consult an expert.
Really
Peter, IMO Israel was created by the Jewish people because they had just endured the greatest Pogram (Hitler’s Final Solution) in a very long list of Pograms (spasms of violence against Jews) that go back to Crusades and before that the Romans. Jewish people never wanted to endure this kind of Pogram again. You might say that finally got fed up once Teutonic thought was weaponized to wipe them off the face of Europe. Check out the historical record of Pograms across Europe through the ages in this link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom
Peter: define "the elite". who supposedly created Israel to "conquer the middle east", and then follow that with your definition of the "they" who : "destroyed Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, captured Egypt [WUT??], killed Gaddafi [that would be Hillary Clinton] , captured Libya and now wants Iran". Would they all perhaps be certain unnamed parties you just don't like?
If you say the US invented Israel, you might as well say the Nazi party invented it. Israel was created by the incredibly hard labor of refugees who “made the desert bloom” where generations of Palestinian leaders had let the land dry out and spoil.
In my understanding there has never been a country named Palestine; an entity or faction maybe...
https://spectator.org/the-myth-and-fraud-that-there-ever-was-an-arab-country-or-people-called-palestine/
Maybe so, but doesn't this seem to be better organized than their usual stuff? I sincerely hope you are right because the alterative is even more evil than what has just happened.