Washington — House Speaker Kevin McCarthy was ousted from his leadership position in a historic vote on Tuesday after a far-right revolt over his reliance on Democrats to pass funding to avert a government shutdown.
The final vote was 216-210, with eight Republicans joining all the Democrats to vote to remove McCarthy.
"The office of Speaker of the House of the United House of Representatives is hereby declared vacant," said Rep. Steve Womack, who was serving as presiding officer.
Rep. Patrick McHenry of North Carolina, a top ally of McCarthy's and a member of the Financial Services Committee, was then appointed. The rules of the 118th Congress state that "in the case of a vacancy in the office of speaker, the next member" named on a list submitted by McCarthy to the clerk of the House in January will become speaker pro tempore until a speaker is elected.
It's the first time a House speaker has been removed in a no-confidence vote.
"The one thing that the White House, House Democrats and many of us on the conservative side of the Republican caucus would argue is the thing we have in common — Kevin McCarthy said something to all of us at one point or another that he didn't really mean and never intended to live up to," Gaetz said on the House floor Tuesday.
Along with Gaetz, seven Republican members voted to oust McCarthy —Reps. Andy Biggs, Ken Buck, Tim Burchett, Eli Crane, Bob Good, Nancy Mace and Matt Rosendale.
Here is Nancy Mace's tweet thread:
@RepNancyMace
"Today I voted for the Motion to Vacate and remove the Speaker.
This isn’t about left vs right.
This isn’t about ideology.
This is about trust and keeping your word.
This is about making Congress do its job.
I promised the Lowcountry I would be an independent voice in Congress. That I would call the balls and strikes and do the right thing regardless of party.
The Speaker has not lived up to his word on how the House would operate.
No budget, no separate spending bills until it was too late, a CR which takes spending power out of the hands of the people and puts all the power into the hands of a select few. There has also been no action on many issues we care about and were promised.
We were promised we would move on women’s issues and legislation to keep our communities safe. Those things never happened.
I came here to take difficult votes and do the right thing, regardless of the pressure and regardless of the threats (bc there’s been plenty of both). Today I’m voting against 95 percent of my party in the hopes of fixing how Congress operates.
With the current Speaker, this chaos will continue. We need a fresh start so we can get back to the people’s business free of these distractions.
I’ll work with anyone willing to do that and look forward to voting for a Speaker who shares this vision for changing Congress and getting us back on a path to delivering results for the people."
I don’t know if this is the right move or not but given the charges already at MAGA from Biden and others, it would seem to be chaos the GOP did not need heading into a major election. What do you think?
"Today I voted for the Motion to Vacate and remove the Speaker.
This isn’t about left vs right.
This isn’t about ideology.
This is about trust and keeping your word.
This is about making Congress do its job.
I promised the Lowcountry I would be an independent voice in Congress. That I would call the balls and strikes and do the right thing regardless of party.
The Speaker has not lived up to his word on how the House would operate.
No budget, no separate spending bills until it was too late, a CR which takes spending power out of the hands of the people and puts all the power into the hands of a select few. There has also been no action on many issues we care about and were promised.
We were promised we would move on women’s issues and legislation to keep our communities safe. Those things never happened.
I came here to take difficult votes and do the right thing, regardless of the pressure and regardless of the threats (bc there’s been plenty of both). Today I’m voting against 95 percent of my party in the hopes of fixing how Congress operates.
With the current Speaker, this chaos will continue. We need a fresh start so we can get back to the people’s business free of these distractions.
I’ll work with anyone willing to do that and look forward to voting for a Speaker who shares this vision for changing Congress and getting us back on a path to delivering results for the people."
That is the kind of courage we need, I started paying attention to her in the impeachment inquiry, she's the kind of politician we need. More power to her! There are good people in Congress right now, we need to support them.
Dems seem pretty stoked to be rid of the Republican Speaker. Gaetz got all their votes which should tell you something about the wisdom of this stunt. Sadly, the troublemakers all occupy relatively safe seats and have astonishingly used this own-goal to raise funds for themselves. Reagan - really the last successful Republican - always said the 13th Commandment was never to speak ill of another Republican. He'd have sent the lowest ranked intern in the Chief of Staff's office to Gaetz's office to tell him off. If it didn't work he'd load up Air Force One for a trip to Gaetz's district to endorse some promising local prosecutor for his seat. Boy needs a butt whippin'.
The Uniparty is the enemy of our Nation. An evil and wicked generation. Liars and hypocrites. War is a racket that they continue to capitalize on. Research and free your mind.
Frank, do you know how much the Federal debt was when Reagan left office in 1989? It was $3 Trillion (and $1.6T was added under Reagan in 8 years ‘81 to ‘89). Today, 33 years later, the Federal debt stands at $33 Trillion. The 13th commandment of Reagan was lost when certain Republicans decided to participate fully in this 1,000% increase in debt, since Reagan left office. These representatives became part of the Uniparty. These participants are IMO no longer Republicans, because are not upholding the Republican Party Platform as it relates halting the growth of the Federal debt.
Federal debt is a tax increase no representative has to vote on. It's the tax that all sides can agree on since none are directly accountable. By causing inflation the debt funding taxes income, savings and accumulated wealth with corporations and individuals equally subject to the hit. And when there isn't enough to cover the interest coupon on the accumulated indebtedness, the Fed simply buys the debt back - a seemingly neutral action that puts more money into circulation with inflation as the inevitable result. The inverse process is now underway with the Fed selling bonds and sucking cash out of the economy. Welcome to the roller coaster.
QUESTION: What happens in 2024 when over $12 Trillion in US Treasuries come due and must be rolled-over? Because China, (et al) are dumping Treasuries, who will buy the $12 Trillion in roll-overs? (Obviously its a trick question Frank. The only buyer is the Federal Reserve)
The point is the "Wiley Coyote moment" where there is no ground underneath is inevitable and the collapse of the US Dollar is soon. Either from actual default by the US Government or default by hyperinflation.
They'll be rolled over at an incrementally higher rate in an environment of slowing or halted economic growth where the coupon from a T-Bill is more attractive than a share of Apple. Heck, if things slow sufficiently, money will come out of equities and into Treasuries. A flat stock market with shares of unprofitable companies can't compete with a nearly 5% guarantee from Uncle Sam.
Walter Wriston said long ago that governments almost never repay debt. I think it was on some long ago Meet The Press episode. He was trying to get regulatory consent to lend Poland (I think it was) money to cover the interest owed on the Polish notes Citicorp held at that time. In any other sane world, borrowers who default on periodic interest payments get moved to impaired, workout or default. Walter wanted to avoid this by doubling down. It happens everywhere. The only comfort for US rollovers is that when we have a recession (the likely trajectory) the rest of the world fares worse. So we remain the least leaky tent in the rainstorm.
Thank you Frank for your eloquent and illuminating reply.
FYI: I came across this excellent piece that cannot be accessed with a VPN block. I had to disconnect from my Proton VPN to access this link. After perusing this link, I purchased the LuLu hardback:
In my mind, Gaetz is a HERO. He called out the betrayal of Americans by these bought and paid for politicians. They have no concern for the future. They booed when he told them they only care about keeping the lobbyists happy. It's the truth they don't want to believe about themselves.
Kamikaze pilots chose to die invoking a choice that only involved themselves. Not so with Gaetz. If Gaetz causes a few swing districts now represented by Republicans to be lost, the Speaker will be a Democrat. Gaetz will still be able to make speeches since he hails from a safe district. He will be able to rail against Dem leadership, cast blame and make unfulfillable promises. Unfortunately, progress at reforming all the most objectionable aspects of Democrat legislation will be forfeit since no Conservative legislation will ever come up for a vote. The Speaker gets to decide the House floor agenda. Gaetz cannot find his place in nearly evenly divided government so he decided to tear it up. He put the rest of the party in his kamikaze cockpit, something he had no right to do and should be punished for.
I am and have been for 40+years been a Conservative Republican. Had a boss once who told me I was "A little to the right of Attila The Hun." He was right. That said I have been following Politics since Nixon v Kennedy so I know a thing or 27 about politics. Which is why I say along with everyone from Hugh Hewitt to Mark Levin, This was stupid, a Bad idea and nothing good will come of this.
well no reasonable conservative would say what you just said. They would probably agree with some maybe most of the things and scratch their head on others. but understand where she is coming from but disagree. You instead say It’s all bull so obvious you are a liberal.
Sounds like you are suggesting people should adopt the thoughts and ideas of those who contribute to your campaign - in other words ignore your constituents and do the bidding of your donors. That doesn't sound very conservative to me at all.
liberal doesn’t mean the same anymore. I live in Boston and most of my friends once considered themself a liberal but sorta like Sasha they no longer agree with most of the policies that the current administration is pushing- so they now find them selves voting republican. I have found liberals here turning to the dark side than conservatives moving over to the left. Are there extremes on both sides? I think the left has a bigger extreme yet Biden loves placing extreme behind MAGA (because he was told to by his handlers because he pissed off 80 million people that actually voted for Trump). but i find the extreme astounding in the left and that’s why most of my friends who are liberal are leaving the democrat party. or at least the Biden administration
There are people saying that the count of 80 Million is low. That is why there are election deniers. We had a post on this blog from a friend who had a friend who had a friend that was an excellent source that said that Trump
had 10,000,000 votes in CA not counted in 2020. “There will always be election deniers when there are election connivers.” A little hokey, I know.
Justified warning to RINO leadership that the base wants them to act with integrity: 1. No more irresponsible spending and separate spending bills as promised by Kevin, 2. Defund 87k IRS agents as promised by Kevin, 3. Make public J6 videos, as promised by Kevin, 4. Stop dragging heels on impeachments of Cabinet officials and Biden, as promised by Kevin, etc.
Well said. McCarthy should never have been appointed Speaker. RINOs need to go. McConnell needs to go as well, but the Senate has very few GOP members who can be trusted.
There's only one issue facing Americans today, and that's the non-white invasion of the US. South Africa today is fast approaching the Stone Age 40 years after white rule ended. But whites were only 10-15% of SA's population. Not only do today's Americans have the example of SA's catastrophe (if Detroit, St Louis, Balto, Sweden, etc., aren't sufficient) as warning, but whites are still almost 2/3 of the US population -- down from 90% in the 60s, and heading further south every day. The difference between 'Conservatives' and Rightists is that Right-wingers understand that politics is downstream from culture, and culture is downstream from race.
Sounds good but there's only so much he can do considering he barely has a majority and Dems control WH and Senate? I mean he can probably do 3 and 4, but the first 2 seem unlikely. I guess we'll see if they can find someone better.
This RINO thing is a big joke. Most of todays "conservatives" have no idea that their predecessors were conservative Democrats who left the party in the Sixties when it went way off to the left. Traditionally, the GOP was progressive than around the 50s they started swapping sides. The irony is that people call other Republicans RINO who are actually more Republican than they are.
I agree with the move to vacate was more than justified. We need to remove RINO’s from positions of leadership and power; the Republican Party won’t make it past 2025 without serious changes. If RINO’s are successful in keeping Trump off of the ballot, expect the grassroots will stay at home on election day.
Sam, I know that you have an excellent grasp of history. But some of it is like being correct about Latin conjugation. Many of us, and certainly me for one, don’t know and don’t have the time to research party machinations of 70 years ago. I know a RINO is one that looks, acts and quacks like one and if that’s poor form or ironic then as the Romans said “qui currant”
It means someone who pretends to be a Republican or conservative and who says they will do certain things in that lane, but who does not do so at all, and even thwarts those things from being done. It's part of the uniparty...controlled opposition...meaning answers to the establishment career politicians, not to the voters. A fraud.
Ah I see, so you don't stand for anything. You should run for office, because people who don't stand for anything tend to go far in politics due not giving a shit about anybody they are supposed to represent. People exactly like yourself won't care if you actively make their lives worse with your votes or your policies, they will thank you for fucking them over and keep on voting for you.
Like "Oh, it's a shame that your job got offshored and that you have to panhandle on the street now because of NAFTA. You don't have anything to lose now, but goddamn it you'd better vote for the Republicans who voted to pass that bill for Bill Clinton to sign! You owe them your loyalty, because if the Democrats win this next election then..." Then WHAT, you're going to be even *more* unemployed and homeless?
You don't owe loyalty, you don't owe your vote, to people who've metaphorically fucked you in the ass without lube. And if you have no sympathy for the people who got behind Trump because, at minimum, Trump *said* he would fight for those people who got screwed...if you think all the people who got screwed should just shut up and vote for your guys so that they can get screwed again and again in the coming years....well, in that case I'm glad that populists are driving you so crazy. You don't deserve peace of mind.
The same as DINO, which is what I consider every single Democrat.
It means that there are certain things you expect a political party to stand for and certain things you expect them to stand again, because that's what they've done in the past.
I used to believe that the Democratic Party was anti-war, in favor of human rights, committed to defending civil liberties, etc. LOL in hindsight because they never believed in any of that stuff. They only pretended to in order to get votes. Regardless, I believed that Democrats were like that once upon a time, and that any Democrat who didn't fit that mold was a DINO. A Democrat who voted to invade Iraq, the way Joe Biden did and the way lots of others did? They would be examples of DINOs.
And when it comes to RINOs, I think you're just wrong with that last lilne. Where you say a RINO isn't somebody whose policies you don't like.
Listen dude, if you're a Republican and you decided to be a Republican because you saw the Republican party taking positions you agreed with and you wanted to support them, then you are 100% justified in being angry at Republicans who do not support those positions. You are 100% justified in saying "This person isn't like the good Republicans who stand for what I believe in! This is a fake Republican, a RINO who doesn't deserve my vote!"
Your support for ANY politician should be conditional on what they do and what they don't do. If you simply get in the habit of voting red or voting blue and think "The red party is always going to be on the right side, so I'm always going to vote red no matter what their policies are!"...well, how are you different from the MSNBC junkies who always vote blue, who do it because they believe that Democrats are always going to preferable to Republicans? That isn't being politically smart, that's being a blind partisan.
That's being a cheerleader for a team, that's being somebody who doesn't care about a single damn thing besides "I want my TEAM to win, because I like winning! I don't care if I have the absolute scum of the earth on my team right now, I don't care if I'll be voting for people who can't be trusted to do the right thing, because I don't care whether anybody does the right thing. I just care about winning. That's it. Full stop."
"if you're a Republican and you decided to be a Republican because you saw the Republican party taking positions you agreed with and you wanted to support them, then you are 100% justified in being angry at Republicans who do not support those positions."
You're quoting the wrong person if you expect me to be persuaded. The man literally had a CIA spook as his VP and his foreign policy was everything I came to hate about the Republican party, and later the Democratic party.
I also think that your figures are off. But even if they aren't, if I can only trust somebody to NOT stab me in the back 80% of the time, that's just not good enough. Because, shockingly, people do not appreciate getting stabbed in the back, and many people aren't in a position to survive more than one backstab.
This is perfect. McCarthy stonewalled on his promises to bring single subject spending bills to the floor. Single subject spending bills is the only way to put sanity into the budgeting process and to control the many agencies of the Federal government that have gone rogue. What we have are uni-party members wearing the Republican label, and we can no longer stand that. Some may call it chaos, but we are facing an unprecedented power grab by the criminal cult now in control of our government--and some of the cult members are in the Republican party. There would be no chaos if McCarthy had simply done what he promised to do. An exorcism is necessary.
The US Government is under complete control. The problem is that it's under the complete control of people who hate Americans and Western Civilization. I think it was Trotsky who explained that, for the Bolshies, "the worse, the better."
Trump for Speaker. Protected from all lawsuits while in office. Can bring forth spend bills one by one. Who dares to vacate him. Big silly grin behind Biden at State of Union. Dem’s heads explode. Make the House Great Again.
Stephen, I think it could benefit all of us to read page 8 of the Republican Party Platform. It states the following. And Republicans either believe it, or it needs to be scrubbed:
REDUCING THE FEDERAL DEBT
Our National debt is a burden in our economy and families. The huge increase in the national debt demanded by and incurred during the current Administration has placed a significant burden on future generations. We must impose firm caps on future debt, accelerate the repayment of the trillions we now owe in order to reaffirm our principles of responsibility and limited government, and remove the burdens we are placing in future generations. A strong economy is one key to debt reduction, but spending restraint is a necessary component that must be vigorously pursued.
Isn't it typical for you to miss the forest for this single tree. Of course every Adminstration going back to 1972 (R's and D's both) contributed to the national debt. The point is that Republicans placed words in their platform to do something about it. It's actually been in there for a very long time. The Democrats did not place words in their platform to this same effect. This is now about whether Republican House members believe in this part of the platform, or not. They are getting called out, in the next vote for Speaker, whether these words of platform mean anything to them, or not.
Chaos? Look around we're in the worst chaos in this nation we've seen in decades. The Speaker breached his agreement. Wow a politician held to the standard he agreed to. We have a Constitution...barely..., we have rules, we can certainly elect a new Speaker. This is NOT chaos...this is the democratic process. Embrace it. We just haven't seen it in a almost a half century. It's a breath of freedom.
I am not a Republican. However, this is another timely display of chaos. Jim Kunstler is going to have to start calling both parties chaotic. Purity is not attainable with humans. You would rather have chaos so you are okay with continuing leftist rule. Heaven help all of us.
I say either you have standards or you don't. If you tolerate establishment pols because just beating the Dems is your number one priority and you're willing to settle for a "lesser evil", well then you're doing the exact same thing that people who voted for Biden did. They knew he was shit, but they said "Now is not the time to be picky! It's either him or Trump and GOP rule, and that would be worse!"
So when you do that, you become the part of the base that your party takes for granted, like the Dems take everyone to the left of Hillary Clinton for granted. Like they took me, an anti-war civil libertarian, for granted...like they repeatedly kicked me and everyone like me in the teeth while being confident that we'd still vote for them because the only other option was to vote GOP.
You have to be willing to turn on people like that, to show them that large numbers of people in their base will not support them no matter what they do, no matter how bad they act.
I’m saying that there seems to be a group within the Republican party that is too principled to govern. Therefore the party cannot govern. Therefore we get the other party. Or, perhaps there are no principles involved and this group is merely auditioning for their next gig. Sorry the Ds took you for granted. Anti- war civil libertarians seem to have no home now with all the war love abounding in DC.
Yeah, we're all either politically homeless or we're praying that we can see the GOP do a 180 the way the Dems have done a 180. We're already seeing Jim Jordan and others whom the MSM likes to call "MAGA extremists" being the ones to defend Matt Taibbi for doing actual investigative reporting, while you have Dems like Stacey Plaskett and AOC wanting Taibbi thrown in prison under the pretense that they take perjury very seriously and that Matt, according to them, lied to congress.
I don't remember where I saw it, but someone said that if you showed the footage of that hearing to somebody from 15 or 20 years ago, then they would have thought that the Republicans were the Democrats and vice versa, because on this issue they have switched places.
The question is: does Jordan truly believe in standing against censorship? Do the others? Or do they just pay lip service to it and act appalled when Democrats do it so that they can attack the Dems, but won't object if a Republican administration ends up doing the same thing? I really don't know, but even if the worst case scenario is true then we at least have these people standing against censorship for now, and that's better than them never standing against censorship at all.
We also have the same so-called "MAGA extremists" standing against sending unlimited money to Ukraine to prolong the proxy war. I'll tell you something that astonished me, astonished me and angered me as a person who hated it when the Bush administration and the Republicans of that era would respond to criticisms of the administration by saying "Why are you defending the terrorists? Are you on the side of the terrorists? You're making arguments for Al Qaeda." Well, I saw video of MTG on the House floor some time ago making the argument that because so many Americans couldn't afford baby formula, we needed that money back home more than Ukraine needed the money. Then Jamie Raskin (God how I hate that motherfucker, you won't have to wait long to find out why) responded to her and he didn't even try to make a counter-argument, he didn't even try to say "No, it's more important that Ukraine gets the money, because of this reason, and this other reason, etc." He just went to George W. Bush & Dick Cheney's old playbook, which is to accuse critics of carrying water for the enemy and make them try to defend themselves from the accusation. Raskin said that everything MTG had just said were talking points from Vladimir Putin.
So yeah, we have liars and neocons everywhere in DC, and even if it's true that principled people can't hold onto power and their principles simultaneously, I don't want to believe that. If I believe that, then I'm going to have to accept that we just have to keep evil people in power so that people who are even more evil don't take their place, and that if we ever get somebody *good* in power then it won't be anytime soon...
Im glad. These CRs and omnibuses have to stop. Along with the gravy train to Ukraine. I could live wo the Dept of Education or the Dept of Energy being funded. Worst case scenario we go back to states running their own schools and appliances that work. Perhaps lightbulbs that are brighter than candles too
Serves him right. KMc was 1.) too slow to address weaponization of government against Trump (impeach Garland; defund Smith; etc.), 2.) complicit with McConnell on failing to engage Trump’s voters for more victories in 2022 and 3.) too slow/soft on inflation, immigration and Ukraine.
Today’s changing R party needs to be a working people’s party of fixers. IMO, KMc was part of the problem of DC, not a solution.
True, but has the chaos playbook produced a better result when deployed previously? Didn't the GOP lose a number of seats when the Tea Party deployed chaos (and shutdowns) as a strategy? And Trump, who prides himself on chaotic disruption, was the first president since Hoover to lose the House, the Senate, and the White House in four years.
Not questioning the goal on budgeting, or even the sentiment on McCarthy. It just seems very uncertain that nixing McCarthy will produce a better result than McCarthy did -- given Dem control of White House and Senate, and very narrow GOP majority in House.
Timing is not great, but McCarthy had to get booted. I wasn't happy with the process that put him in the leadership chair. Draw the line and hold firm. We must get this country's financial house in order. Not a big fan of Gaetz, but cheered for him today.
The timing was horrible with the Bowman Alarmgate scandal, etc. really starting to show the Dems for what they are, which is the party of activist children who are ignorant of reality\history voting for fascist and Marxist maniacs who could care less about them and will sell out the country for their own profit and political gain.
That being said, Kevin had to go. Better now than never.
We also can't lie to ourselves: Congress is always in chaos and deadlocked 90% of the time. What has changed with this development?
I didn't support Mccarthy as speaker but was willing to give him a chance. He said a lot of the right things and made a lot of promises, which unfortunately he failed to keep. It's true that this will lead to chaos and the alternative to Mccarthy may be worse, but Mccarthy isn't part of the solution to the mess we are in, he is part of the problem.
The budget deal was a complete capitulation resulting in $2 trillion deficits as far as the eye can see. I'm old enough to remember when $200 billion deficits were thought to be unsustainable. Mccarthy failed to keep his promise to return to regular order and actually have single issue budget votes. Mccarthy is above all a consummate politician and creature of Washington.
The impeachment hearing was a huge disappointment. I learned nothing that I didn't know before. Why hasn't Hunter Biden or his business associates been subpoenaed?
There are no easy solutions to our problems, but keeping Mccarthy guarantees that we will stay on the same path to failure that we have been following for decades.
So were all the impeachments of Trump chaos or non chaos? I think most on this thread would say they were chaos and all the dems stuck together through it and look what happened- they were able to get Biden in the office because of it. I’m so tired of Republicans being polite and kicking the damn can down the road... oh we will secure the border LATER, this will be our last Ukraine funding, oh we’ll balance the budget when we have the full congress, we’ll
get to the bottom Jan 6 and Biden crime family when Trump is in office. Always passing it along bc it’s not the right time. it’s such bullshit. These Reps are finally taking a stand and saying enough is enough. McCarthy is WORM. No action all
So your point is all the Democrats stick together and get things done. I concede on removing McCarthy they did it again. So now the Matt coalition only needs to get 200+ members to get on his side. Winning!
Well I'm 68 and have never voted for a Democrat. I'm taking the same position Trump took today. We should be fighting Democrats not each other. Why is this such a difficult concept?
Tom, it difficult because House representatives who call themselves Republicans, are not upholding The Republican Party Platform. They wear an elephant label but vote in step with donkeys on certain issues (spending being the main one).
When you were born, the Federal debt in 1955 was $274 Billion, and a debt to GDP ratio of 64%.
The 1st 17 years of your life, the US also operated under a Gold Standard, which provided a cap on debt (must have physical gold bars to back your debt)
Today the Federal debt is $33 Trillion and a debt to GDP ratio of 124%.
This mess of a debt is only possible by removing US from gold standard in 1972. And then both Republican & Democratic Representatives & Administrations continually increasing spending every year (for the last 50 years) and selling that debt to Japanese in 80’s and now the Chinese in 21st century.
I hope this puts Democrats on notice that not all of the Republicans are Rinos--that some of them are willing to go to the mat to fight for the country our founders envisioned. I hope this encourages everyday Republicans to speak up, to take a stand. I hope this is the first step in reclaiming the glory that was once the United States.
McCarthy has never had a job except politician. He may say the right things on TV, but it's hard to have any confidence in a guy like that. Maybe he should have bowed out of the election for speaker that he just knew he was entitled to. This may be a bad move, may be a smart one, but men and women of his ilk don't represent America any better than Pelosi and Schumer. We really are run by a bunch of crooks and weasels.
I wish I knew. Democracy is messy in a people-run government. My first impulse is to think, well, that's it. Democrats will win now because I saw already people saying 'MAGA extremists...' But everyone has the right to fight for the representation they want.
The Republican Party has been in a 7 year war to redefine itself as a multi-cultural, working class party. The Democrats have put off this fight since Hillary screwed Bernie (and then Obama/Clyburn called it for Biden). Just wait until the coming revolution within the Democrats...
I'm what you might call a leftie who is disgusted with today's Democratic Party and who has seen many things he believes in go from being accepted left-wing positions to now being called right-wing. (E.g. "You think that people should have freedom of speech even though speech can be dangerous! You are an evil RIGHT-WINGER!")
So here's a couple things I think the GOP could do to get me to vote for them instead of voting third party or not voting at all, as well as picking up independents and other disillusioned ex-Democrat voters.
First, end all the wars. Adopt what the Lindsey Grahams or the Adam Schiffs of the world will call an isolationist foreign policy, but who cares what those kinds of people say? Take that money that currently goes to the military industrial complex and spend that at home. I would like that because we would no longer be complicit in mass murder, and others would like it because it would really be America First.
Second, make yourself the party of freedom, and maybe this will require leaning hard into libertarianism to convince everyone you mean it, but it will go a long way to making people see that your party can actually be good. Legalize weed at the federal level for starters, or at least make it clear that it's your goal. We've already had Republican candidates willing to do that, including one person who was an opponent of Kamala Harris years ago. Tulsi's epic takedown of Harris included mentioning that she was against legalizing weed and laughed at the idea while her Republican opponent wanted to legalize it, if I'm not mistaken. If you can get out in front of Democrats on this and prove that they are in favor of imprisoning people for this while you are not, then it becomes a lot harder for them to claim that they're more compassionate the way they like to do.
Lots of people like me have already revolted against the Dems for similar reasons to Matt Taibbi and Glenn Greenwald. We don't need to be persuaded not to vote blue. But we do need to be persuaded that voting red won't get us another administration like George W. Bush's.
Did you read the Politico article on how the Democrats are fearful that their party isn’t as multi-cultural as they think because blacks and Latinos are abandoning them for their progressive insanity?
I think this needed to happen. McCarthy represented the uni-party a dyed in the wool bureaucrat. Now they can truly unite under someone with some spine who is not controlled by their donors.
If rest of the republicans can get behind someone with spine. Most republicans are the problem and I don't see them rallying behind someone who is going to rock the boat like it needs to be rocked. We will see. I hope I'm wrong.
I agree with you up to the point of legalizing weed. Decriminalizing yes, but actually legalizing, no. Legalization has done so much damage to Colorado and other states that I just don't see the benefit.
My thoughts exactly. I give up on a party with no plan. These rebels, who claim to want twelve appropriation bills, have now made it impossible for the House to do anything, as it is Speaker-less. I don't think today's GOP can govern, because they cannot see that compromise is needed in a divided government.
The 80 that actually voted for him. omg Phil you are delusional. when Trump was an nyc Dem everyone loved him. You literally just described the Biden crime family. Joe literally used his sad drug addicted son to sell Joes influence in foreign policy. He has made millions of dollars doing this. If you cant see and admit that you are just lost. Trump is a narcissist that’s for sure and do i wish he didn’t say some of the things he says -yes and i’m ok with him stepping down to let another republican run- you bet i am -but you trying now to say he was corrupt business man, cheating, trying to hurt /swindle others give me a break, you are grasping at straws. I’m done trying to reason with someone so brainwashed. Wake up and look at your own idiot in the office that is destroying this country. But your side can never admit when they are wrong that’s the problem in todays country. Back when Carter destroyed the country people didn’t care what letter was beside the name they voted for Reagan because they realized what was happening and their guy was destroying the country but today dems like you it’s all about your side winning. you don’t care about it as the whole, as the country, you just want to protect that you were right and admitting Joe isn’t the good guy you have to admit you made a bad choice. i’m done. go get a life and get back to work like i am. instead of trolling this site.
I'm with Sasha, I don't know either. On the one hand, yet another round of shutdown theater would not in any way help the GOP any more than it has in the past. And when it comes to irresponsible spending the right has nothing to brag about -- they just spend the money on different items. But when 7 Republicans join the entirety of the donkey caucus (including, apparently, those who pull fire alarms to delay votes) to take down GOP leadership, this is also not a good outcome for the GOP.
We are a nation of fools being led by petulant children and an enfeebled, corrupt puppet.
I think the last straw was seeing Zylensky together with McConnell/McCarthy last week - it was as if more worries over Ukraine border vs US (and US Border).
Well Brad, Gaetz just threw a stick in the bike spokes and the rider fell off. Now those riders get up, brush themselves off and have to think about another Speaker vote that has spending as a top of mind. Not only that, the rule to vacate future Speakership being brought by 1 Rep remains as a knife over head of new Speaker. A course is trying to be changed now. We’ll have to see what happens. I predict a government shut down in mid November
That's why it might be the time of monsters. I don't live in the country I knew as America. I don't know how to change course. If the economy really turns bad I really don't know what to expect.
If the R's triggered a shutdown the media would paint them as unruly anarchists incapable of leading. Like it or not, however the media portrays events is how the majority of Americans will perceive it. Think back on all the shutdowns during the messiah's reign. What did Boehner gain for his party?
The current GOP is a mess, especially its so-called leadership, and if they can't pull it together in short order they will lose the House again next year, have no chance of taking the Senate, and could quite likely see a second Biden administration. Or a President Newsom. And I don't think the nation can survive any of those.
So Rs are to have no say in the budgeting process?? What is the sense of having a second party? We may as well have President Gruesome if Rs can only do things Ds and the fake media approve of🤷♀️
When you have a razor thin majority as the GOP currently has you need every member to be in lock step if you are going to accomplish goals. The GOP is a heard of directionless -- and leaderless -- cats no less beholden to their monied donors than the donkeys across the isle. So good luck with that.
Nancy Pelosi may be the very embodiment of evil, but she got shit done and even whipped the "squad" into shape. The GOP has no equivalent and unless they can pull off a super majority, will never likely accomplish anything until they do find a leader with Pelosi's merciless effectiveness.
Sasha, I look forward to your stuff because you are always so smart and interesting. They would be out to get MAGA anyway because they were never really with us. they need our votes but that's it. The swamp worms have been letting us down for as long as I can recall. We need a brawler as speaker for the times we are living through. I hope we don't end up worse off but Kevin was never the guy for the times.
I'm with Elliot and a few others here. McCarthy looked like yet another sell-out to appease and further the status quo. And we know where that has gotten us, the status quo that is.
1)McCarthy hasn’t delivered as promised. Still awaiting the J6 videos, hasn’t defunded the 87,000 IRS workers, didn’t finish the budgeting process on time as pledged and passed another continuing resolution to keep the govt running - he deserves to be ousted.
2) McCarthy has the ball rolling on exposing corruption in the govt, exposing the Weaponization of the DOJ, FBI, CIA, DHS, etc. He hasn’t got as much done as hoped for but shouldn’t have been ousted.
Pick 1. Why not 2? Because it's McCarthy who has held the process of issuing relevant subpoenas to push impeachment of Garland, Mayorkas, Wray, and Biden. He hasn't even allowed Hunter Biden to be subpoenaed! McCarthy is EXACTLY the kind of swamp creature that needs to removed from our government! He's playing both sides against the middle, and guess who is in the middle. WE are....the lowly deplorables of the USA. And we lose every time.
What actually goes on behind the closed doors, on both sides of the isle, would stun the voter into both mental & physical paralysis. The last three (3) Republican Speakers have NOT represented the will of the people nor many within the halls of Congress. Our Republic is no longer recognizable...any sense of democratically elected officials has vaporized into the either. Money and power are the combined currency of those who assume the mantle of 'elected officials'. Very few grasp the nuisance of their 'oath of office'...it means next to nothing. McCarthy appears to have followed our last two (2) Speakers as he operated from not a position of compromise but willful appeasement, appeasing those whose only goal is the abject destruction of our nation. The R's will have to grasp that a true war has been waged and they are NOT sitting on the front lines, defending their collective positions but whining like schoolyard wannabes who missed dessert following lunch!
The Democrats allowed themselves to be brow-beaten by Pelosi all the time. None of them are principled people. They never stood up for their constituents. The Dems are sheep. Bahhhh
With all due respect, it's more like Republicans stripping the ball from one of their own. But kudos for coming up with something besides the circular firing squad metaphor.
Actually it could be exactly what the GOP needs. McCarthy made promises he didn't keep because he thought there would be no consequences. Gaetz showed there were. That's a vast departure from the Democrats. Just my two cents.
Establishment tools have to go, consequences to elections be damned. This is what the Squad should have done to Pelosi and would have if they meant anything they said about running to oppose establishment Democrats.
Ya know people keep throwing around word like Traitor, RINO, Globalist, Without (it appears to these old eyes) knowing What They Mean, other than someone did something I don't like.
So Pat Explain to me How Kevin McCarthy was /is a Traitor?
Kevin McCarthy is a traitor because he is protecting the criminal FBI's entrapment scheme of Jan 6th by not releasing all of the video.
The complete videos would show that the "rioters" were in fact FBI agents like Ray Epps, and that the actual Trump supporters were the ones walking nicely through the velvet ropes after they were invited into the Capitol through the doors that were deliberately opened to entrap them. Hell, "Buffalo Man" was literally escorted the whole time by Capitol Police, and yet sentenced to prison. He was released only when video proved beyond any doubt that he was escorted.
Jan 6th was a legitimate protest of the obviously fraudulent 2020 election that installed Biden. Traitor McCarthy refuses to release all of the promised video because that would indisputably show FBI agents were the troublemakers, and prevent those same FBI agents from being used again for the same kind of thing.
The definition of traitor as "Someone who violates an allegiance and betrays his country" fits McCarthy perfectly, as he has violated his allegiance to the Constitution and betrayed his country.
Everything she said was correct. All of that about Jan 6th are true and i saw it when some of the tapes were released. Stop worshipping CNN and and try and educate yourself.
The most generous way I can describe this is that it's a principled idiot drill. The hard-line GOPers will not get the hard-line Speaker they want. The next Speaker will need at least 8 Dem votes, so the next Speaker will be even squishier than McCarthy. Meanwhile, the Dems and DNC-Media will use this affair as proof positive that the GOP cannot govern. I think barring something unforeseen, the GOP will lose the House in 2024.
I am unsure in this instance; it seems to me that this might be an instance of better to lose with honor than win with compromise. The long term benefits may be worth it. Not sure.
I get your unsureness, however, this is politics and successful politics requires votes. Will this affair increase the number of votes for the GOP or will it be a "lost cause", remembered fondly by a minority?
It's certainly a self-destructive move politically, and likely strategically as well.
The ONLY two pieces of legislation this century that reduced the debt without tax increases were the recent debt ceiling extension ($1.5 trillion over 10 years), and last fall's infrastructure bill ($350 billion). The debt ceiling measure also contained a provision to cut spending another 1% if Congress failed to enact required appropriations by Sept 30. (Which of course it failed to do.)
In addition, Gallup's latest monthly polling has the GOP 14 points up on managing the economy and maintaining prosperity -- the highest level since the Reagan Administration.
These things all happened with McCarthy as speaker. The party that controls one of the three bodies that control federal spending, got proportionally more than that in budget negotiations, and was poised to gain more control in next year's election, with Gallup and other polls reflecting voter approval that, at long last, Congress is going the right way on spending, after 20 straight years of going the wrong way, under both red and blue administrations and congresses.
So what should the GOP do for a next act?
Execute the Speaker?
With no electable speaker lined up? And no plan for how to govern through the vacuum they have created?
Forgive me if I'm slow to characterize this as a win.
I get what many commenters here are saying -- that spending is so out of control that we simply can't afford to defer further action now. Just remember that McCarthy's replacement won't be able to force his will on Biden or the Democratic Senate, either.
To Sasha's question on whether this is a good move, the answer is: we'll know in 12 to 18 months.
If forthcoming legislation contains additional spending cuts, it will have been successful. If legislation over the next 12 months contains fewer spending cuts, or God forbid spending increases, it will have been a bad, counterproductive move.
I'm hoping for the former, but if I were betting would have to put money on the latter. Politics hates (and will fill) a vacuum even more than nature.
Did John Boehner and Paul Ryan and Kevin McCarthy all lack will? Perhaps they did, or perhaps the problem is some GOP factions have expectations that exceed the number of votes the GOP can muster.
The Speaker holds one-third of the cards at this table. Schumer holds a third, and so does the president. I thought McCarthy did a really good job of forcing Biden to the table, after Biden spent three months pushing for nothing but a clean bill.
But that's just my perspective; yours is obviously different. The good news is we'll both know in a matter of months whether a next speaker (assuming one is elected) can meet or exceed what McCarthy did. A key challenge will be getting more cuts w/out a shutdown, since there has never been a shutdown that didn't hurt GOP, for the simple reason that a shutdown angers more people than it pleases.
The speaker holds all the cards in the house, including the one where all funding must originate. As Pelosi showed, the speaker has tremendous power in the house. Unmatched by any other leader of the Senate, and even the president.
The others did lack will. Not even giving Trump a penny for the wall. However the Democrats did in fact fund some of the wall at Biden’s request.
If you want more of the same, keep voting back the same people.
Well, I'm at a bit of a loss on how to respond, because your assertion that the speaker is more powerful than the president and majority leader is so dead flat wrong that I'm wondering how anyone could come to believe it.
Yes, funding bills have to originate in the House under Article 1 Section 8. But no bill can become a law without the Senate also passing it, and the president also signing it. That gives the three of them equal power, and if you think a new speaker can accomplish more than McCarthy without going through Biden and Schumer, you're in for a rude shock.
The president oversees and commands the military, has nearly unchecked latitude to conduct foreign policy and prosecute wars, commands and oversees a civilian work force of millions, can veto any legislation the House and Senate send over, and needs only one-third plus one vote in the Senate (34 votes) or the House (145 votes) to prevent a veto from overridden.
The speaker's powers are not remotely comparable to the president's. And despite your assertion, the majority leader absolutely controls the Senate's legislative agenda and floor schedule as much as the Speaker controls the House's. The ML may have less power during debate, due to the filibuster, but if the ML doesn't like the floor outlook for a piece of legislation, or doesn't like the legislation itself, he or she simply doesn't bring it to the floor.
The ML also has a smaller flock to preside over, and senators only have to run every six years, which by design makes them more powerful than House members. (As Washington said, the Senate is intended as a cooling influence on the House, in the same way a saucer was used to cool hot tea that has boiled over its cup.)
If the speaker were more powerful than the majority leader, people would run for Senate first and from there set their sights on running for the House, which is the exact opposite of what always happens. They run for the House first, and then the Senate, which they view as a promotion.
Similarly, if the speaker were more powerful than the president, you'd see presidents and other power-seeking politicians trying to be speaker rather than president -- another thing that has never once happened.
Can I ask where you got this view? You seem like a reasonable guy, and I don't know anyone who doesn't share your frustration that Congress won't do its damn job, and that our leaders keep putting the interest of their parties above the interest of the country. (and crippling us in the process) But I don't believe you could find five people in the country who would agree that the president and majority leader are less powerful than the speaker.
All of the Gaetz rhetoric means nothing without a plan. Congress has not done its job for decades. But pulling this stunt with no alternative Leader is irresponsible and weakens any chance of conservatives getting any wins. I’m furious.
I appreciate your anger. I think the 8 Republicans who voted against McCarthy voted with courage and integrity and that in doing so will strengthen conservatives more in the long term. It challenges the Uniparty and RINOS. Time will tell and I may very well be wrong.
I am thrilled that finally a republican made a stand and I don’t care if the GOP is destroyed. What has McCarthy accomplished with the border, Ukraine, Biden, or cutting spending???? He did not live up to his agreement
Gee, Steve, what is your definition? Your read news, substacks, etc, surely you've figure it out.
If not, here are a few cues, RINOs don't care that Covid measures violated our inalienable rights, don't demand that Fauci, Wray and ilk should be in jail, are not horrified by the illegal abuses of the J6 prisoners, and can't imagine that just maybe, maybe, elections are rigged by illegal censorship. How's that for a start.
Bottom line: unless you reform entitlements and drastically reduce defense spending you are cutting nickels and dimes. Bold moves must be made towards fiscal responsibility or we are in for a massive de-dollarization to match our hegemonic failures. Time to reel it all in before the current deep state shitbags get us into more wars we can’t win.
true - but those nickels and dimes add up to perks that draw assholes into a lifetime of politics.
Keeping entitlements that go to the 350 million Americans makes sense. Cutting the nickels and dimes that accrue to the employees of leviathan may actually fix our government by getting rid of the low-work-ethic, money-grubbing, free-meal, free-transportation grifters known as politicians and bureaucrats. Willie Sutton would be a bureaucrat today. Assistant Associate Director to the Undersecretary.
So let me talk briefly. Callista and I sat here with our team and watched the vote this afternoon. I have to say, it was very disheartening for percent. 4% of the Republican conference sided with the Democrats to take Kevin McCarthy out of the speakership. I think it's the most despicable, traitorous act I've seen in modern times. I think that gets as a total fraud.
And I think that this really bodes very hard for seeing how they're going to put it back together and how it's going to move forward. And I think, you know, if McCarthy decides that he doesn't want to go through this meat grinder again, whoever does ended up there is going to have the same problems because you can't deliver the side to the kind of a rapid change that these guys throw temper tantrums over.
And much of what they said was just not true. And a part of it is The Gates Hates McCarthy, I think partially because McCarthy has refused to intervene with the Ethics Committee, where Gates is facing some very, very serious allegations. And they could actually end up destroying Gates his career. But so probably Gates won't hate the next person as much, but the underlying problem of having not just the eight who voted with the Democrats, but about 20 members who want basically legislation that can't pass.
And so if they don't get it, they vote no, then the legislation that could pass can't pass. I think this is a real challenge and I'm not quite certain how the next few months are going to work out. I will tell you, frankly, that I could not have managed a house with this sized margin as well as Kevin did.
I suspect Gaetz may have really screwed things up. Bear in mind that McCarthy was actually ousted by DEMOCRATS, with the support of a handful of Far Right Republicans (in Name Only.) Democrats went home laughing.
The people are speaking! We do not want “can kickers” we want the promises kept, deficient/inflation addressed and other problems solved. He not only broke his promise to the other R reps, he lied to the people!
All of the good choices are gone. The “achievements” of the McCarthyites are illusory. Dems can swat them aside in the senate or the WH, without blowback. The house has the unique authority to cut funding. That can be effective, and can’t be characterized as shutting down the government.
"The “achievements” of the McCarthyites are illusory."
Meaning? Lets remember a couple of small things I like to call Facts. 1. The GOP has a 5 seat majority in the House (some of whom are "Moderates") 2. The Democrats Control The Senate. # The Democrats control the WH. So what Exactly was Kevin McCarthy supposed to do? He did (to quote Burt Gummer) "What He Could With What He Had."
It seems to me that there are two pretty bad possibilities here. I am not saying that either one is probable. The first is that moderate Repos get knocked off in the primaries by radicals, who then lose in the general election, resulting in Demo control. The second is that moderate Repos, foreseeing this fate, switch parties in order to avoid it, again resulting in Demo control before the election rather than after. I am hoping that the Repos just select someone else (Scalise?) from the leadership team, or a well-respected guy who is neither in the leadership or with the radicals, perhaps Tom Cole. But overall the new reality is that the radicals are pretty riled up, making "bomb-thrower" primary challenges a lot more likely. And that is dangerous.
I meant that Gaetz was using "I can't trust him" as a pretext both for a first action and against a second action: he can now say that he does trust Scalise, so it's all good.
By the way, I dislike McCarthy, and absolutely cannot stand Gaetz.
At least that gives Gaetz an out (however disingenuous it may be) about why he might be happy to support someone like Scalise.
Also worth noting is that they could get rid of rule allowing only one member to trigger a vote. It was said at the time that this rule would make McCarthy's job impossible. Yet he lasted for 8 months. And the Gang of Eight must be getting a lot of cold shoulders, enough to make them think twice before doing the same thing all over again. Perhaps we are getting overly excited about this.
I just made a $1,000 contribution to Eli Crane (not my Arizona district - but nearby) for being part of the Gang of Eight or whatever they are being called. Chaos like this is good. McCarthy went back on his word when these basically same G8 agreed to support his election as Speaker. There have to be consequences. The fact that other reps besides the G8 would not support his ouster is the problem, not the 8.
Here is Nancy Mace's tweet thread:
@RepNancyMace
"Today I voted for the Motion to Vacate and remove the Speaker.
This isn’t about left vs right.
This isn’t about ideology.
This is about trust and keeping your word.
This is about making Congress do its job.
I promised the Lowcountry I would be an independent voice in Congress. That I would call the balls and strikes and do the right thing regardless of party.
The Speaker has not lived up to his word on how the House would operate.
No budget, no separate spending bills until it was too late, a CR which takes spending power out of the hands of the people and puts all the power into the hands of a select few. There has also been no action on many issues we care about and were promised.
We were promised we would move on women’s issues and legislation to keep our communities safe. Those things never happened.
I came here to take difficult votes and do the right thing, regardless of the pressure and regardless of the threats (bc there’s been plenty of both). Today I’m voting against 95 percent of my party in the hopes of fixing how Congress operates.
With the current Speaker, this chaos will continue. We need a fresh start so we can get back to the people’s business free of these distractions.
I’ll work with anyone willing to do that and look forward to voting for a Speaker who shares this vision for changing Congress and getting us back on a path to delivering results for the people."
That is the kind of courage we need, I started paying attention to her in the impeachment inquiry, she's the kind of politician we need. More power to her! There are good people in Congress right now, we need to support them.
Dems seem pretty stoked to be rid of the Republican Speaker. Gaetz got all their votes which should tell you something about the wisdom of this stunt. Sadly, the troublemakers all occupy relatively safe seats and have astonishingly used this own-goal to raise funds for themselves. Reagan - really the last successful Republican - always said the 13th Commandment was never to speak ill of another Republican. He'd have sent the lowest ranked intern in the Chief of Staff's office to Gaetz's office to tell him off. If it didn't work he'd load up Air Force One for a trip to Gaetz's district to endorse some promising local prosecutor for his seat. Boy needs a butt whippin'.
The Uniparty is the enemy of our Nation. An evil and wicked generation. Liars and hypocrites. War is a racket that they continue to capitalize on. Research and free your mind.
Frank, do you know how much the Federal debt was when Reagan left office in 1989? It was $3 Trillion (and $1.6T was added under Reagan in 8 years ‘81 to ‘89). Today, 33 years later, the Federal debt stands at $33 Trillion. The 13th commandment of Reagan was lost when certain Republicans decided to participate fully in this 1,000% increase in debt, since Reagan left office. These representatives became part of the Uniparty. These participants are IMO no longer Republicans, because are not upholding the Republican Party Platform as it relates halting the growth of the Federal debt.
Federal debt is a tax increase no representative has to vote on. It's the tax that all sides can agree on since none are directly accountable. By causing inflation the debt funding taxes income, savings and accumulated wealth with corporations and individuals equally subject to the hit. And when there isn't enough to cover the interest coupon on the accumulated indebtedness, the Fed simply buys the debt back - a seemingly neutral action that puts more money into circulation with inflation as the inevitable result. The inverse process is now underway with the Fed selling bonds and sucking cash out of the economy. Welcome to the roller coaster.
Frank very informative, thank you.
QUESTION: What happens in 2024 when over $12 Trillion in US Treasuries come due and must be rolled-over? Because China, (et al) are dumping Treasuries, who will buy the $12 Trillion in roll-overs? (Obviously its a trick question Frank. The only buyer is the Federal Reserve)
The point is the "Wiley Coyote moment" where there is no ground underneath is inevitable and the collapse of the US Dollar is soon. Either from actual default by the US Government or default by hyperinflation.
Time to start growing your own food everybody.
They'll be rolled over at an incrementally higher rate in an environment of slowing or halted economic growth where the coupon from a T-Bill is more attractive than a share of Apple. Heck, if things slow sufficiently, money will come out of equities and into Treasuries. A flat stock market with shares of unprofitable companies can't compete with a nearly 5% guarantee from Uncle Sam.
Walter Wriston said long ago that governments almost never repay debt. I think it was on some long ago Meet The Press episode. He was trying to get regulatory consent to lend Poland (I think it was) money to cover the interest owed on the Polish notes Citicorp held at that time. In any other sane world, borrowers who default on periodic interest payments get moved to impaired, workout or default. Walter wanted to avoid this by doubling down. It happens everywhere. The only comfort for US rollovers is that when we have a recession (the likely trajectory) the rest of the world fares worse. So we remain the least leaky tent in the rainstorm.
Thank you Frank for your eloquent and illuminating reply.
FYI: I came across this excellent piece that cannot be accessed with a VPN block. I had to disconnect from my Proton VPN to access this link. After perusing this link, I purchased the LuLu hardback:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/great-taking-they-plan-own-all/5834686
Keep on writing, Frank. So we can all keep learning. You are a good teacher
for us all.
In my mind, Gaetz is a HERO. He called out the betrayal of Americans by these bought and paid for politicians. They have no concern for the future. They booed when he told them they only care about keeping the lobbyists happy. It's the truth they don't want to believe about themselves.
Kamikaze pilots chose to die invoking a choice that only involved themselves. Not so with Gaetz. If Gaetz causes a few swing districts now represented by Republicans to be lost, the Speaker will be a Democrat. Gaetz will still be able to make speeches since he hails from a safe district. He will be able to rail against Dem leadership, cast blame and make unfulfillable promises. Unfortunately, progress at reforming all the most objectionable aspects of Democrat legislation will be forfeit since no Conservative legislation will ever come up for a vote. The Speaker gets to decide the House floor agenda. Gaetz cannot find his place in nearly evenly divided government so he decided to tear it up. He put the rest of the party in his kamikaze cockpit, something he had no right to do and should be punished for.
God Bless her, but keep a suspicious cat eye on her... Remember these folks are funded by lobbyists. That is okay, depending on the lobbyist. Beware.
Did Nancy Mace really mean “call the balls and strikes” or “have the balls to strike”.
Well That's pretty much Bull.
Why? I bet if AOC said that you’d be clapping.
Let me see if I get this right. Angela land you are either a supporter of Matt Gaetz or you are a Progressive Socialist. Is that what you're saying?
or in your words a progressive socialist.
I am and have been for 40+years been a Conservative Republican. Had a boss once who told me I was "A little to the right of Attila The Hun." He was right. That said I have been following Politics since Nixon v Kennedy so I know a thing or 27 about politics. Which is why I say along with everyone from Hugh Hewitt to Mark Levin, This was stupid, a Bad idea and nothing good will come of this.
Nothing good comes from acting, nothing good comes from not acting. Maybe it is time to start blowing things up.
Attila the Hun was a murderous dictator - in other words a liberal in todays' coinage.
well no reasonable conservative would say what you just said. They would probably agree with some maybe most of the things and scratch their head on others. but understand where she is coming from but disagree. You instead say It’s all bull so obvious you are a liberal.
Pretty Much the way see it. Rationalize Rationalize Rationalize it order to stab someone in the back that raised $2,000,000 for her election.
See (repost)
Mark Interviews Rep Thomas Massie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL0h0E8FwD0
Sounds like you are suggesting people should adopt the thoughts and ideas of those who contribute to your campaign - in other words ignore your constituents and do the bidding of your donors. That doesn't sound very conservative to me at all.
liberal doesn’t mean the same anymore. I live in Boston and most of my friends once considered themself a liberal but sorta like Sasha they no longer agree with most of the policies that the current administration is pushing- so they now find them selves voting republican. I have found liberals here turning to the dark side than conservatives moving over to the left. Are there extremes on both sides? I think the left has a bigger extreme yet Biden loves placing extreme behind MAGA (because he was told to by his handlers because he pissed off 80 million people that actually voted for Trump). but i find the extreme astounding in the left and that’s why most of my friends who are liberal are leaving the democrat party. or at least the Biden administration
There are people saying that the count of 80 Million is low. That is why there are election deniers. We had a post on this blog from a friend who had a friend who had a friend that was an excellent source that said that Trump
had 10,000,000 votes in CA not counted in 2020. “There will always be election deniers when there are election connivers.” A little hokey, I know.
Justified warning to RINO leadership that the base wants them to act with integrity: 1. No more irresponsible spending and separate spending bills as promised by Kevin, 2. Defund 87k IRS agents as promised by Kevin, 3. Make public J6 videos, as promised by Kevin, 4. Stop dragging heels on impeachments of Cabinet officials and Biden, as promised by Kevin, etc.
Well said. McCarthy should never have been appointed Speaker. RINOs need to go. McConnell needs to go as well, but the Senate has very few GOP members who can be trusted.
There's only one issue facing Americans today, and that's the non-white invasion of the US. South Africa today is fast approaching the Stone Age 40 years after white rule ended. But whites were only 10-15% of SA's population. Not only do today's Americans have the example of SA's catastrophe (if Detroit, St Louis, Balto, Sweden, etc., aren't sufficient) as warning, but whites are still almost 2/3 of the US population -- down from 90% in the 60s, and heading further south every day. The difference between 'Conservatives' and Rightists is that Right-wingers understand that politics is downstream from culture, and culture is downstream from race.
Exactly!!!! Well said...and thank you for reminding us why McCarthy failed us.
Sounds good but there's only so much he can do considering he barely has a majority and Dems control WH and Senate? I mean he can probably do 3 and 4, but the first 2 seem unlikely. I guess we'll see if they can find someone better.
(once again I ask) Define RINO.
This RINO thing is a big joke. Most of todays "conservatives" have no idea that their predecessors were conservative Democrats who left the party in the Sixties when it went way off to the left. Traditionally, the GOP was progressive than around the 50s they started swapping sides. The irony is that people call other Republicans RINO who are actually more Republican than they are.
I agree with the move to vacate was more than justified. We need to remove RINO’s from positions of leadership and power; the Republican Party won’t make it past 2025 without serious changes. If RINO’s are successful in keeping Trump off of the ballot, expect the grassroots will stay at home on election day.
Sam, I know that you have an excellent grasp of history. But some of it is like being correct about Latin conjugation. Many of us, and certainly me for one, don’t know and don’t have the time to research party machinations of 70 years ago. I know a RINO is one that looks, acts and quacks like one and if that’s poor form or ironic then as the Romans said “qui currant”
Sam, There is a big difference between Rockefeller and Goldwater, Roosevelt and Coolidge Republicans. I remember and I hope this reminds you, too.
Elliot
"Republican In Name Only"
Rob let’s just let Steve keep thinking he is so witty.
Ah, sorry, I took it as him really not knowing.
That is NOT a definition.
What does that mean? Hint, it doesn't mean someone voted or did something I don't like.
It means someone who pretends to be a Republican or conservative and who says they will do certain things in that lane, but who does not do so at all, and even thwarts those things from being done. It's part of the uniparty...controlled opposition...meaning answers to the establishment career politicians, not to the voters. A fraud.
Pretends?
God Save Us from Populists! LOTS OF Passion, minimal common sense.
Define populists
Ah I see, so you don't stand for anything. You should run for office, because people who don't stand for anything tend to go far in politics due not giving a shit about anybody they are supposed to represent. People exactly like yourself won't care if you actively make their lives worse with your votes or your policies, they will thank you for fucking them over and keep on voting for you.
Like "Oh, it's a shame that your job got offshored and that you have to panhandle on the street now because of NAFTA. You don't have anything to lose now, but goddamn it you'd better vote for the Republicans who voted to pass that bill for Bill Clinton to sign! You owe them your loyalty, because if the Democrats win this next election then..." Then WHAT, you're going to be even *more* unemployed and homeless?
You don't owe loyalty, you don't owe your vote, to people who've metaphorically fucked you in the ass without lube. And if you have no sympathy for the people who got behind Trump because, at minimum, Trump *said* he would fight for those people who got screwed...if you think all the people who got screwed should just shut up and vote for your guys so that they can get screwed again and again in the coming years....well, in that case I'm glad that populists are driving you so crazy. You don't deserve peace of mind.
The same as DINO, which is what I consider every single Democrat.
It means that there are certain things you expect a political party to stand for and certain things you expect them to stand again, because that's what they've done in the past.
I used to believe that the Democratic Party was anti-war, in favor of human rights, committed to defending civil liberties, etc. LOL in hindsight because they never believed in any of that stuff. They only pretended to in order to get votes. Regardless, I believed that Democrats were like that once upon a time, and that any Democrat who didn't fit that mold was a DINO. A Democrat who voted to invade Iraq, the way Joe Biden did and the way lots of others did? They would be examples of DINOs.
And when it comes to RINOs, I think you're just wrong with that last lilne. Where you say a RINO isn't somebody whose policies you don't like.
Listen dude, if you're a Republican and you decided to be a Republican because you saw the Republican party taking positions you agreed with and you wanted to support them, then you are 100% justified in being angry at Republicans who do not support those positions. You are 100% justified in saying "This person isn't like the good Republicans who stand for what I believe in! This is a fake Republican, a RINO who doesn't deserve my vote!"
Your support for ANY politician should be conditional on what they do and what they don't do. If you simply get in the habit of voting red or voting blue and think "The red party is always going to be on the right side, so I'm always going to vote red no matter what their policies are!"...well, how are you different from the MSNBC junkies who always vote blue, who do it because they believe that Democrats are always going to preferable to Republicans? That isn't being politically smart, that's being a blind partisan.
That's being a cheerleader for a team, that's being somebody who doesn't care about a single damn thing besides "I want my TEAM to win, because I like winning! I don't care if I have the absolute scum of the earth on my team right now, I don't care if I'll be voting for people who can't be trusted to do the right thing, because I don't care whether anybody does the right thing. I just care about winning. That's it. Full stop."
"if you're a Republican and you decided to be a Republican because you saw the Republican party taking positions you agreed with and you wanted to support them, then you are 100% justified in being angry at Republicans who do not support those positions."
"80% my friend does Not mean 20% my enemy."
R Reagan.
You're quoting the wrong person if you expect me to be persuaded. The man literally had a CIA spook as his VP and his foreign policy was everything I came to hate about the Republican party, and later the Democratic party.
I also think that your figures are off. But even if they aren't, if I can only trust somebody to NOT stab me in the back 80% of the time, that's just not good enough. Because, shockingly, people do not appreciate getting stabbed in the back, and many people aren't in a position to survive more than one backstab.
Maybe look in the mirror?
Define “define”
This is perfect. McCarthy stonewalled on his promises to bring single subject spending bills to the floor. Single subject spending bills is the only way to put sanity into the budgeting process and to control the many agencies of the Federal government that have gone rogue. What we have are uni-party members wearing the Republican label, and we can no longer stand that. Some may call it chaos, but we are facing an unprecedented power grab by the criminal cult now in control of our government--and some of the cult members are in the Republican party. There would be no chaos if McCarthy had simply done what he promised to do. An exorcism is necessary.
Yep, that about sums it up. It may be chaotic but we have to stop putting up with this out of control government at some point.
The US Government is under complete control. The problem is that it's under the complete control of people who hate Americans and Western Civilization. I think it was Trotsky who explained that, for the Bolshies, "the worse, the better."
I believe it was Lenin actually. But, accurate observation on your part nonetheless.
Trump for Speaker. Protected from all lawsuits while in office. Can bring forth spend bills one by one. Who dares to vacate him. Big silly grin behind Biden at State of Union. Dem’s heads explode. Make the House Great Again.
Stephen, I think it could benefit all of us to read page 8 of the Republican Party Platform. It states the following. And Republicans either believe it, or it needs to be scrubbed:
REDUCING THE FEDERAL DEBT
Our National debt is a burden in our economy and families. The huge increase in the national debt demanded by and incurred during the current Administration has placed a significant burden on future generations. We must impose firm caps on future debt, accelerate the repayment of the trillions we now owe in order to reaffirm our principles of responsibility and limited government, and remove the burdens we are placing in future generations. A strong economy is one key to debt reduction, but spending restraint is a necessary component that must be vigorously pursued.
https://prod-static.gop.com/media/Resolution_Platform.pdf?_gl=1*hti0e0*_gcl_au*OTI4OTY1NjI0LjE2OTYzODQzMjU.&_ga=2.78852692.1175739292.1696384326-1031624067.1696384325
Isn't it typical for you to miss the forest for this single tree. Of course every Adminstration going back to 1972 (R's and D's both) contributed to the national debt. The point is that Republicans placed words in their platform to do something about it. It's actually been in there for a very long time. The Democrats did not place words in their platform to this same effect. This is now about whether Republican House members believe in this part of the platform, or not. They are getting called out, in the next vote for Speaker, whether these words of platform mean anything to them, or not.
Great rebuttal
Even a complete stop is better than what they have been doing!!!
Chaos? Look around we're in the worst chaos in this nation we've seen in decades. The Speaker breached his agreement. Wow a politician held to the standard he agreed to. We have a Constitution...barely..., we have rules, we can certainly elect a new Speaker. This is NOT chaos...this is the democratic process. Embrace it. We just haven't seen it in a almost a half century. It's a breath of freedom.
Excellent summation.
love this
McCarthy was bought and paid for, he didn’t fight for conservative Americans.
I’d rather have chaos than sell outs.
McCarthy is Paul Ryan 2.0.
Don’t need him. Don’t want him.
This past CR he laid on his belly and let the Dems have their way.
Is that the kind of Republican your support?
Is that the kind of Republican you are?
I am not a Republican. However, this is another timely display of chaos. Jim Kunstler is going to have to start calling both parties chaotic. Purity is not attainable with humans. You would rather have chaos so you are okay with continuing leftist rule. Heaven help all of us.
I say either you have standards or you don't. If you tolerate establishment pols because just beating the Dems is your number one priority and you're willing to settle for a "lesser evil", well then you're doing the exact same thing that people who voted for Biden did. They knew he was shit, but they said "Now is not the time to be picky! It's either him or Trump and GOP rule, and that would be worse!"
So when you do that, you become the part of the base that your party takes for granted, like the Dems take everyone to the left of Hillary Clinton for granted. Like they took me, an anti-war civil libertarian, for granted...like they repeatedly kicked me and everyone like me in the teeth while being confident that we'd still vote for them because the only other option was to vote GOP.
You have to be willing to turn on people like that, to show them that large numbers of people in their base will not support them no matter what they do, no matter how bad they act.
I’m saying that there seems to be a group within the Republican party that is too principled to govern. Therefore the party cannot govern. Therefore we get the other party. Or, perhaps there are no principles involved and this group is merely auditioning for their next gig. Sorry the Ds took you for granted. Anti- war civil libertarians seem to have no home now with all the war love abounding in DC.
Opposing unjust wars is the right side of history.
Of course, it is. Did not say it wasn’t.
My thoughts...
Yeah, we're all either politically homeless or we're praying that we can see the GOP do a 180 the way the Dems have done a 180. We're already seeing Jim Jordan and others whom the MSM likes to call "MAGA extremists" being the ones to defend Matt Taibbi for doing actual investigative reporting, while you have Dems like Stacey Plaskett and AOC wanting Taibbi thrown in prison under the pretense that they take perjury very seriously and that Matt, according to them, lied to congress.
I don't remember where I saw it, but someone said that if you showed the footage of that hearing to somebody from 15 or 20 years ago, then they would have thought that the Republicans were the Democrats and vice versa, because on this issue they have switched places.
The question is: does Jordan truly believe in standing against censorship? Do the others? Or do they just pay lip service to it and act appalled when Democrats do it so that they can attack the Dems, but won't object if a Republican administration ends up doing the same thing? I really don't know, but even if the worst case scenario is true then we at least have these people standing against censorship for now, and that's better than them never standing against censorship at all.
We also have the same so-called "MAGA extremists" standing against sending unlimited money to Ukraine to prolong the proxy war. I'll tell you something that astonished me, astonished me and angered me as a person who hated it when the Bush administration and the Republicans of that era would respond to criticisms of the administration by saying "Why are you defending the terrorists? Are you on the side of the terrorists? You're making arguments for Al Qaeda." Well, I saw video of MTG on the House floor some time ago making the argument that because so many Americans couldn't afford baby formula, we needed that money back home more than Ukraine needed the money. Then Jamie Raskin (God how I hate that motherfucker, you won't have to wait long to find out why) responded to her and he didn't even try to make a counter-argument, he didn't even try to say "No, it's more important that Ukraine gets the money, because of this reason, and this other reason, etc." He just went to George W. Bush & Dick Cheney's old playbook, which is to accuse critics of carrying water for the enemy and make them try to defend themselves from the accusation. Raskin said that everything MTG had just said were talking points from Vladimir Putin.
So yeah, we have liars and neocons everywhere in DC, and even if it's true that principled people can't hold onto power and their principles simultaneously, I don't want to believe that. If I believe that, then I'm going to have to accept that we just have to keep evil people in power so that people who are even more evil don't take their place, and that if we ever get somebody *good* in power then it won't be anytime soon...
Brilliant response and reasoning. Thank-you.
Thank *you*. :)
Im glad. These CRs and omnibuses have to stop. Along with the gravy train to Ukraine. I could live wo the Dept of Education or the Dept of Energy being funded. Worst case scenario we go back to states running their own schools and appliances that work. Perhaps lightbulbs that are brighter than candles too
Serves him right. KMc was 1.) too slow to address weaponization of government against Trump (impeach Garland; defund Smith; etc.), 2.) complicit with McConnell on failing to engage Trump’s voters for more victories in 2022 and 3.) too slow/soft on inflation, immigration and Ukraine.
Today’s changing R party needs to be a working people’s party of fixers. IMO, KMc was part of the problem of DC, not a solution.
Would that the senate republicans would grow a pair and dump McConnel, too...
Has the non-chaos been working for us? NOPE
True, but has the chaos playbook produced a better result when deployed previously? Didn't the GOP lose a number of seats when the Tea Party deployed chaos (and shutdowns) as a strategy? And Trump, who prides himself on chaotic disruption, was the first president since Hoover to lose the House, the Senate, and the White House in four years.
Not questioning the goal on budgeting, or even the sentiment on McCarthy. It just seems very uncertain that nixing McCarthy will produce a better result than McCarthy did -- given Dem control of White House and Senate, and very narrow GOP majority in House.
Timing is not great, but McCarthy had to get booted. I wasn't happy with the process that put him in the leadership chair. Draw the line and hold firm. We must get this country's financial house in order. Not a big fan of Gaetz, but cheered for him today.
The timing was horrible with the Bowman Alarmgate scandal, etc. really starting to show the Dems for what they are, which is the party of activist children who are ignorant of reality\history voting for fascist and Marxist maniacs who could care less about them and will sell out the country for their own profit and political gain.
That being said, Kevin had to go. Better now than never.
We also can't lie to ourselves: Congress is always in chaos and deadlocked 90% of the time. What has changed with this development?
I didn't support Mccarthy as speaker but was willing to give him a chance. He said a lot of the right things and made a lot of promises, which unfortunately he failed to keep. It's true that this will lead to chaos and the alternative to Mccarthy may be worse, but Mccarthy isn't part of the solution to the mess we are in, he is part of the problem.
The budget deal was a complete capitulation resulting in $2 trillion deficits as far as the eye can see. I'm old enough to remember when $200 billion deficits were thought to be unsustainable. Mccarthy failed to keep his promise to return to regular order and actually have single issue budget votes. Mccarthy is above all a consummate politician and creature of Washington.
The impeachment hearing was a huge disappointment. I learned nothing that I didn't know before. Why hasn't Hunter Biden or his business associates been subpoenaed?
There are no easy solutions to our problems, but keeping Mccarthy guarantees that we will stay on the same path to failure that we have been following for decades.
Count me as pro-chaos.
I don't know if I'm on the correct side of this issue, but it's the side of the wall I'll stand on.
So were all the impeachments of Trump chaos or non chaos? I think most on this thread would say they were chaos and all the dems stuck together through it and look what happened- they were able to get Biden in the office because of it. I’m so tired of Republicans being polite and kicking the damn can down the road... oh we will secure the border LATER, this will be our last Ukraine funding, oh we’ll balance the budget when we have the full congress, we’ll
get to the bottom Jan 6 and Biden crime family when Trump is in office. Always passing it along bc it’s not the right time. it’s such bullshit. These Reps are finally taking a stand and saying enough is enough. McCarthy is WORM. No action all
slither.
So your point is all the Democrats stick together and get things done. I concede on removing McCarthy they did it again. So now the Matt coalition only needs to get 200+ members to get on his side. Winning!
Well I'm 68 and have never voted for a Democrat. I'm taking the same position Trump took today. We should be fighting Democrats not each other. Why is this such a difficult concept?
Tom, it difficult because House representatives who call themselves Republicans, are not upholding The Republican Party Platform. They wear an elephant label but vote in step with donkeys on certain issues (spending being the main one).
When you were born, the Federal debt in 1955 was $274 Billion, and a debt to GDP ratio of 64%.
The 1st 17 years of your life, the US also operated under a Gold Standard, which provided a cap on debt (must have physical gold bars to back your debt)
Today the Federal debt is $33 Trillion and a debt to GDP ratio of 124%.
This mess of a debt is only possible by removing US from gold standard in 1972. And then both Republican & Democratic Representatives & Administrations continually increasing spending every year (for the last 50 years) and selling that debt to Japanese in 80’s and now the Chinese in 21st century.
I hope this puts Democrats on notice that not all of the Republicans are Rinos--that some of them are willing to go to the mat to fight for the country our founders envisioned. I hope this encourages everyday Republicans to speak up, to take a stand. I hope this is the first step in reclaiming the glory that was once the United States.
Phil you must be the bot or paid troller hired to contribute nothing of value to this forum. Slither away, please.
Sounding very vaccinated.
McCarthy has never had a job except politician. He may say the right things on TV, but it's hard to have any confidence in a guy like that. Maybe he should have bowed out of the election for speaker that he just knew he was entitled to. This may be a bad move, may be a smart one, but men and women of his ilk don't represent America any better than Pelosi and Schumer. We really are run by a bunch of crooks and weasels.
McCarthy had a restaurant in Bakersfield.
And he acts like a maitre’d asking for tips.
Given the state of our republic maybe this is the chaos we need. I like McCarthy but is it the time of monsters?
I wish I knew. Democracy is messy in a people-run government. My first impulse is to think, well, that's it. Democrats will win now because I saw already people saying 'MAGA extremists...' But everyone has the right to fight for the representation they want.
The Republican Party has been in a 7 year war to redefine itself as a multi-cultural, working class party. The Democrats have put off this fight since Hillary screwed Bernie (and then Obama/Clyburn called it for Biden). Just wait until the coming revolution within the Democrats...
I'm what you might call a leftie who is disgusted with today's Democratic Party and who has seen many things he believes in go from being accepted left-wing positions to now being called right-wing. (E.g. "You think that people should have freedom of speech even though speech can be dangerous! You are an evil RIGHT-WINGER!")
So here's a couple things I think the GOP could do to get me to vote for them instead of voting third party or not voting at all, as well as picking up independents and other disillusioned ex-Democrat voters.
First, end all the wars. Adopt what the Lindsey Grahams or the Adam Schiffs of the world will call an isolationist foreign policy, but who cares what those kinds of people say? Take that money that currently goes to the military industrial complex and spend that at home. I would like that because we would no longer be complicit in mass murder, and others would like it because it would really be America First.
Second, make yourself the party of freedom, and maybe this will require leaning hard into libertarianism to convince everyone you mean it, but it will go a long way to making people see that your party can actually be good. Legalize weed at the federal level for starters, or at least make it clear that it's your goal. We've already had Republican candidates willing to do that, including one person who was an opponent of Kamala Harris years ago. Tulsi's epic takedown of Harris included mentioning that she was against legalizing weed and laughed at the idea while her Republican opponent wanted to legalize it, if I'm not mistaken. If you can get out in front of Democrats on this and prove that they are in favor of imprisoning people for this while you are not, then it becomes a lot harder for them to claim that they're more compassionate the way they like to do.
Lots of people like me have already revolted against the Dems for similar reasons to Matt Taibbi and Glenn Greenwald. We don't need to be persuaded not to vote blue. But we do need to be persuaded that voting red won't get us another administration like George W. Bush's.
Love what you stated - very well put. I’m with you!
Self-destruction by the Democrat party is about the only hope the GOP has of pulling ahead (and pulling their heads out of their asses).
Did you read the Politico article on how the Democrats are fearful that their party isn’t as multi-cultural as they think because blacks and Latinos are abandoning them for their progressive insanity?
I think this needed to happen. McCarthy represented the uni-party a dyed in the wool bureaucrat. Now they can truly unite under someone with some spine who is not controlled by their donors.
If rest of the republicans can get behind someone with spine. Most republicans are the problem and I don't see them rallying behind someone who is going to rock the boat like it needs to be rocked. We will see. I hope I'm wrong.
I agree with you up to the point of legalizing weed. Decriminalizing yes, but actually legalizing, no. Legalization has done so much damage to Colorado and other states that I just don't see the benefit.
If it’s true that Speaker said one thing to his own people and did the opposite than good riddance. Amr from Australia
The job of speaker with a razor thin majority, promises to be more responsive and a handful of cocksure rebels is a recipe for disaster.
Governing os the art of the possible. Ousting the speaker with no plan or alternative candidate is pure idiocy.
These events sure feed dem narratives that the GOP can’t govern.
Counterpoint - F!#k the Speaker of the House. It's a position voted on by government employees, not the governed.
My thoughts exactly. I give up on a party with no plan. These rebels, who claim to want twelve appropriation bills, have now made it impossible for the House to do anything, as it is Speaker-less. I don't think today's GOP can govern, because they cannot see that compromise is needed in a divided government.
Secure borders, responsible spending, energy independence, American exceptionalism, right to life. Extreme indeed.
Exactly. Phil here likes to watch CNN all
day and thinks he is morally better than all these horrible extremists. The brainwashing is astounding.
Yep 80 million and growing
The 80 that actually voted for him. omg Phil you are delusional. when Trump was an nyc Dem everyone loved him. You literally just described the Biden crime family. Joe literally used his sad drug addicted son to sell Joes influence in foreign policy. He has made millions of dollars doing this. If you cant see and admit that you are just lost. Trump is a narcissist that’s for sure and do i wish he didn’t say some of the things he says -yes and i’m ok with him stepping down to let another republican run- you bet i am -but you trying now to say he was corrupt business man, cheating, trying to hurt /swindle others give me a break, you are grasping at straws. I’m done trying to reason with someone so brainwashed. Wake up and look at your own idiot in the office that is destroying this country. But your side can never admit when they are wrong that’s the problem in todays country. Back when Carter destroyed the country people didn’t care what letter was beside the name they voted for Reagan because they realized what was happening and their guy was destroying the country but today dems like you it’s all about your side winning. you don’t care about it as the whole, as the country, you just want to protect that you were right and admitting Joe isn’t the good guy you have to admit you made a bad choice. i’m done. go get a life and get back to work like i am. instead of trolling this site.
Surveys are fickle things.
Good analysis. Although I was under the impression all J6 evidenced was destroyed after Tucker left Fox.
I'm with Sasha, I don't know either. On the one hand, yet another round of shutdown theater would not in any way help the GOP any more than it has in the past. And when it comes to irresponsible spending the right has nothing to brag about -- they just spend the money on different items. But when 7 Republicans join the entirety of the donkey caucus (including, apparently, those who pull fire alarms to delay votes) to take down GOP leadership, this is also not a good outcome for the GOP.
We are a nation of fools being led by petulant children and an enfeebled, corrupt puppet.
True words, my friend. We are a nation of fools.
I think the last straw was seeing Zylensky together with McConnell/McCarthy last week - it was as if more worries over Ukraine border vs US (and US Border).
"As the war machine keeps turning..."
But how do we change course before it's too late?
Well Brad, Gaetz just threw a stick in the bike spokes and the rider fell off. Now those riders get up, brush themselves off and have to think about another Speaker vote that has spending as a top of mind. Not only that, the rule to vacate future Speakership being brought by 1 Rep remains as a knife over head of new Speaker. A course is trying to be changed now. We’ll have to see what happens. I predict a government shut down in mid November
That's why it might be the time of monsters. I don't live in the country I knew as America. I don't know how to change course. If the economy really turns bad I really don't know what to expect.
I hope Jesus doesn't tarry as they say.
Why was the shutdown going to be blamed on R's? They passed bills, Ds rejected them.
If the R's triggered a shutdown the media would paint them as unruly anarchists incapable of leading. Like it or not, however the media portrays events is how the majority of Americans will perceive it. Think back on all the shutdowns during the messiah's reign. What did Boehner gain for his party?
The current GOP is a mess, especially its so-called leadership, and if they can't pull it together in short order they will lose the House again next year, have no chance of taking the Senate, and could quite likely see a second Biden administration. Or a President Newsom. And I don't think the nation can survive any of those.
So Rs are to have no say in the budgeting process?? What is the sense of having a second party? We may as well have President Gruesome if Rs can only do things Ds and the fake media approve of🤷♀️
When you have a razor thin majority as the GOP currently has you need every member to be in lock step if you are going to accomplish goals. The GOP is a heard of directionless -- and leaderless -- cats no less beholden to their monied donors than the donkeys across the isle. So good luck with that.
Nancy Pelosi may be the very embodiment of evil, but she got shit done and even whipped the "squad" into shape. The GOP has no equivalent and unless they can pull off a super majority, will never likely accomplish anything until they do find a leader with Pelosi's merciless effectiveness.
They will never accomplish GOOD things if they become a dem hive mind clone
BradK, I admired Nancy's single-mindedness and ruthlessness, while defeating the results. You are spot-on.
McCarthy is a weasel; McConnell is a cockroach.
Sasha, I look forward to your stuff because you are always so smart and interesting. They would be out to get MAGA anyway because they were never really with us. they need our votes but that's it. The swamp worms have been letting us down for as long as I can recall. We need a brawler as speaker for the times we are living through. I hope we don't end up worse off but Kevin was never the guy for the times.
I'm with Elliot and a few others here. McCarthy looked like yet another sell-out to appease and further the status quo. And we know where that has gotten us, the status quo that is.
I’m of 2 minds...
1)McCarthy hasn’t delivered as promised. Still awaiting the J6 videos, hasn’t defunded the 87,000 IRS workers, didn’t finish the budgeting process on time as pledged and passed another continuing resolution to keep the govt running - he deserves to be ousted.
2) McCarthy has the ball rolling on exposing corruption in the govt, exposing the Weaponization of the DOJ, FBI, CIA, DHS, etc. He hasn’t got as much done as hoped for but shouldn’t have been ousted.
Waiting to hear more before I pick 1 or 2
Pick 1. Why not 2? Because it's McCarthy who has held the process of issuing relevant subpoenas to push impeachment of Garland, Mayorkas, Wray, and Biden. He hasn't even allowed Hunter Biden to be subpoenaed! McCarthy is EXACTLY the kind of swamp creature that needs to removed from our government! He's playing both sides against the middle, and guess who is in the middle. WE are....the lowly deplorables of the USA. And we lose every time.
I’m applying the Dan Bongino rule - wait 24-48 hours after something happens to make a decision
What actually goes on behind the closed doors, on both sides of the isle, would stun the voter into both mental & physical paralysis. The last three (3) Republican Speakers have NOT represented the will of the people nor many within the halls of Congress. Our Republic is no longer recognizable...any sense of democratically elected officials has vaporized into the either. Money and power are the combined currency of those who assume the mantle of 'elected officials'. Very few grasp the nuisance of their 'oath of office'...it means next to nothing. McCarthy appears to have followed our last two (2) Speakers as he operated from not a position of compromise but willful appeasement, appeasing those whose only goal is the abject destruction of our nation. The R's will have to grasp that a true war has been waged and they are NOT sitting on the front lines, defending their collective positions but whining like schoolyard wannabes who missed dessert following lunch!
One own goal after another.
When you're doing it with 8 votes from your party and 210 from the enemy, anyone with any sense would realize that's a huge error.
Not Republicans.
And I'm no fan of McCarthy.
Complete chaos. Republicans always fumble the ball at the most inopportune times
After all that to elect him...
Well, perhaps he should have followed through with what he promised. It would seem that the single issue spending bills is a big deal.
The cracks were showing then, the clock has been ticking all along
And the Ds don't? Bipartisan circular firing squad of blame and distraction from pressing issues
The Democrats allowed themselves to be brow-beaten by Pelosi all the time. None of them are principled people. They never stood up for their constituents. The Dems are sheep. Bahhhh
With all due respect, it's more like Republicans stripping the ball from one of their own. But kudos for coming up with something besides the circular firing squad metaphor.
There doesn't even need to be an opposing player in the vicinity. Takes some skill to master the open field fumble.
Actually it could be exactly what the GOP needs. McCarthy made promises he didn't keep because he thought there would be no consequences. Gaetz showed there were. That's a vast departure from the Democrats. Just my two cents.
Establishment tools have to go, consequences to elections be damned. This is what the Squad should have done to Pelosi and would have if they meant anything they said about running to oppose establishment Democrats.
I think it's wonderful that traitor McCarthy is out.
Where is the J6 video he promised?
Ya know people keep throwing around word like Traitor, RINO, Globalist, Without (it appears to these old eyes) knowing What They Mean, other than someone did something I don't like.
So Pat Explain to me How Kevin McCarthy was /is a Traitor?
Kevin McCarthy is a traitor because he is protecting the criminal FBI's entrapment scheme of Jan 6th by not releasing all of the video.
The complete videos would show that the "rioters" were in fact FBI agents like Ray Epps, and that the actual Trump supporters were the ones walking nicely through the velvet ropes after they were invited into the Capitol through the doors that were deliberately opened to entrap them. Hell, "Buffalo Man" was literally escorted the whole time by Capitol Police, and yet sentenced to prison. He was released only when video proved beyond any doubt that he was escorted.
Jan 6th was a legitimate protest of the obviously fraudulent 2020 election that installed Biden. Traitor McCarthy refuses to release all of the promised video because that would indisputably show FBI agents were the troublemakers, and prevent those same FBI agents from being used again for the same kind of thing.
The definition of traitor as "Someone who violates an allegiance and betrays his country" fits McCarthy perfectly, as he has violated his allegiance to the Constitution and betrayed his country.
Where do you get your blinders?
Everything she said was correct. All of that about Jan 6th are true and i saw it when some of the tapes were released. Stop worshipping CNN and and try and educate yourself.
For the first time in a long time someone was held accountable. Good news!
The most generous way I can describe this is that it's a principled idiot drill. The hard-line GOPers will not get the hard-line Speaker they want. The next Speaker will need at least 8 Dem votes, so the next Speaker will be even squishier than McCarthy. Meanwhile, the Dems and DNC-Media will use this affair as proof positive that the GOP cannot govern. I think barring something unforeseen, the GOP will lose the House in 2024.
I agree. It’s a dumpster fire.
I am unsure in this instance; it seems to me that this might be an instance of better to lose with honor than win with compromise. The long term benefits may be worth it. Not sure.
I get your unsureness, however, this is politics and successful politics requires votes. Will this affair increase the number of votes for the GOP or will it be a "lost cause", remembered fondly by a minority?
There was no honor involved. Asking the impossible as these 8 did is not honorable.
It's certainly a self-destructive move politically, and likely strategically as well.
The ONLY two pieces of legislation this century that reduced the debt without tax increases were the recent debt ceiling extension ($1.5 trillion over 10 years), and last fall's infrastructure bill ($350 billion). The debt ceiling measure also contained a provision to cut spending another 1% if Congress failed to enact required appropriations by Sept 30. (Which of course it failed to do.)
In addition, Gallup's latest monthly polling has the GOP 14 points up on managing the economy and maintaining prosperity -- the highest level since the Reagan Administration.
These things all happened with McCarthy as speaker. The party that controls one of the three bodies that control federal spending, got proportionally more than that in budget negotiations, and was poised to gain more control in next year's election, with Gallup and other polls reflecting voter approval that, at long last, Congress is going the right way on spending, after 20 straight years of going the wrong way, under both red and blue administrations and congresses.
So what should the GOP do for a next act?
Execute the Speaker?
With no electable speaker lined up? And no plan for how to govern through the vacuum they have created?
Forgive me if I'm slow to characterize this as a win.
I get what many commenters here are saying -- that spending is so out of control that we simply can't afford to defer further action now. Just remember that McCarthy's replacement won't be able to force his will on Biden or the Democratic Senate, either.
To Sasha's question on whether this is a good move, the answer is: we'll know in 12 to 18 months.
If forthcoming legislation contains additional spending cuts, it will have been successful. If legislation over the next 12 months contains fewer spending cuts, or God forbid spending increases, it will have been a bad, counterproductive move.
I'm hoping for the former, but if I were betting would have to put money on the latter. Politics hates (and will fill) a vacuum even more than nature.
One requires will in order to “force” it. The speaker holds the cards. We need one who will play them.
Did John Boehner and Paul Ryan and Kevin McCarthy all lack will? Perhaps they did, or perhaps the problem is some GOP factions have expectations that exceed the number of votes the GOP can muster.
The Speaker holds one-third of the cards at this table. Schumer holds a third, and so does the president. I thought McCarthy did a really good job of forcing Biden to the table, after Biden spent three months pushing for nothing but a clean bill.
But that's just my perspective; yours is obviously different. The good news is we'll both know in a matter of months whether a next speaker (assuming one is elected) can meet or exceed what McCarthy did. A key challenge will be getting more cuts w/out a shutdown, since there has never been a shutdown that didn't hurt GOP, for the simple reason that a shutdown angers more people than it pleases.
Should be an interesting few months.
The speaker holds all the cards in the house, including the one where all funding must originate. As Pelosi showed, the speaker has tremendous power in the house. Unmatched by any other leader of the Senate, and even the president.
The others did lack will. Not even giving Trump a penny for the wall. However the Democrats did in fact fund some of the wall at Biden’s request.
If you want more of the same, keep voting back the same people.
Well, I'm at a bit of a loss on how to respond, because your assertion that the speaker is more powerful than the president and majority leader is so dead flat wrong that I'm wondering how anyone could come to believe it.
Yes, funding bills have to originate in the House under Article 1 Section 8. But no bill can become a law without the Senate also passing it, and the president also signing it. That gives the three of them equal power, and if you think a new speaker can accomplish more than McCarthy without going through Biden and Schumer, you're in for a rude shock.
The president oversees and commands the military, has nearly unchecked latitude to conduct foreign policy and prosecute wars, commands and oversees a civilian work force of millions, can veto any legislation the House and Senate send over, and needs only one-third plus one vote in the Senate (34 votes) or the House (145 votes) to prevent a veto from overridden.
The speaker's powers are not remotely comparable to the president's. And despite your assertion, the majority leader absolutely controls the Senate's legislative agenda and floor schedule as much as the Speaker controls the House's. The ML may have less power during debate, due to the filibuster, but if the ML doesn't like the floor outlook for a piece of legislation, or doesn't like the legislation itself, he or she simply doesn't bring it to the floor.
The ML also has a smaller flock to preside over, and senators only have to run every six years, which by design makes them more powerful than House members. (As Washington said, the Senate is intended as a cooling influence on the House, in the same way a saucer was used to cool hot tea that has boiled over its cup.)
If the speaker were more powerful than the majority leader, people would run for Senate first and from there set their sights on running for the House, which is the exact opposite of what always happens. They run for the House first, and then the Senate, which they view as a promotion.
Similarly, if the speaker were more powerful than the president, you'd see presidents and other power-seeking politicians trying to be speaker rather than president -- another thing that has never once happened.
Can I ask where you got this view? You seem like a reasonable guy, and I don't know anyone who doesn't share your frustration that Congress won't do its damn job, and that our leaders keep putting the interest of their parties above the interest of the country. (and crippling us in the process) But I don't believe you could find five people in the country who would agree that the president and majority leader are less powerful than the speaker.
All of the Gaetz rhetoric means nothing without a plan. Congress has not done its job for decades. But pulling this stunt with no alternative Leader is irresponsible and weakens any chance of conservatives getting any wins. I’m furious.
I appreciate your anger. I think the 8 Republicans who voted against McCarthy voted with courage and integrity and that in doing so will strengthen conservatives more in the long term. It challenges the Uniparty and RINOS. Time will tell and I may very well be wrong.
He followed through. A politician finally did what he said he was going to do. It must be the end times.
I’m fine with this because it forces honesty to the forefront. We need us some consequences.
Decisive action against the 'more of the same.' it may not be pretty but thank you to the 216 who said there needs to be better leadership.
He needed to stop the Democrats and didn’t do it.
Who is our voice?
Who in Congress is doing anything for the middle class?
The border is wide open. We don't want that.
Ukraine is full funded at over 100 billion. We don't want that.
Stores are being looted. We don't want that.
Interest rates are rising. We don't want that.
Inflation is out-of-control. We don't want that.
Teachers Unions run the school system. We don't want that.
Cities are devolving into no go danger zones. We don't want that.
Gas prices are out-of-control. We don't want that
Travel has become a living hell. We don't want that.
They want to take our stoves, our appliances, our gas run cars. We don't want that.
Who in Congress under McCarthy was doing anything for us?
Anything????
3. We are further bankrupting our country and refusing adequate services to the homeless and veterans while we fund Europes (apparently non) problem
7. Fire the RINO’s to solve many of the above problems and vote in America first Reps (from whatever party or no party).
8. Fancy that.
9. Relative to what Richie Rich?
11. Lets us worry about the efficiency of whatever we buy. Water is scarce in CA and abundant in Appalachia. One size fits none.
I’m sympathetic to all the arguments against McCarthy but I think it was the wrong thing to do.
Chaos in the House? Oh My! What do you all call what is going on around us? Chaos is a step up.
I am thrilled that finally a republican made a stand and I don’t care if the GOP is destroyed. What has McCarthy accomplished with the border, Ukraine, Biden, or cutting spending???? He did not live up to his agreement
Exactly. You captured the message perfectly: you don’t care if the GOP is destroyed.
Its current incarnation has taken us in the wrong direction.
So burn down everything yo get -what exactly? Something worse? dirde
Typo there. Sorry
Gee, Steve, what is your definition? Your read news, substacks, etc, surely you've figure it out.
If not, here are a few cues, RINOs don't care that Covid measures violated our inalienable rights, don't demand that Fauci, Wray and ilk should be in jail, are not horrified by the illegal abuses of the J6 prisoners, and can't imagine that just maybe, maybe, elections are rigged by illegal censorship. How's that for a start.
Excellent start!
Although it's worrisome where this could lead, I knew McCarthy was not the right person when he reneged on his promise to release all J6 videos.
Mccarthy is currently quoting Nancy Pelosi in his speech. Enough said....
Bottom line: unless you reform entitlements and drastically reduce defense spending you are cutting nickels and dimes. Bold moves must be made towards fiscal responsibility or we are in for a massive de-dollarization to match our hegemonic failures. Time to reel it all in before the current deep state shitbags get us into more wars we can’t win.
true - but those nickels and dimes add up to perks that draw assholes into a lifetime of politics.
Keeping entitlements that go to the 350 million Americans makes sense. Cutting the nickels and dimes that accrue to the employees of leviathan may actually fix our government by getting rid of the low-work-ethic, money-grubbing, free-meal, free-transportation grifters known as politicians and bureaucrats. Willie Sutton would be a bureaucrat today. Assistant Associate Director to the Undersecretary.
Newt's Reaction to Kevin McCarthy Being Voted Out As Speaker of the House
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqKTIg_VUTc
So let me talk briefly. Callista and I sat here with our team and watched the vote this afternoon. I have to say, it was very disheartening for percent. 4% of the Republican conference sided with the Democrats to take Kevin McCarthy out of the speakership. I think it's the most despicable, traitorous act I've seen in modern times. I think that gets as a total fraud.
And I think that this really bodes very hard for seeing how they're going to put it back together and how it's going to move forward. And I think, you know, if McCarthy decides that he doesn't want to go through this meat grinder again, whoever does ended up there is going to have the same problems because you can't deliver the side to the kind of a rapid change that these guys throw temper tantrums over.
And much of what they said was just not true. And a part of it is The Gates Hates McCarthy, I think partially because McCarthy has refused to intervene with the Ethics Committee, where Gates is facing some very, very serious allegations. And they could actually end up destroying Gates his career. But so probably Gates won't hate the next person as much, but the underlying problem of having not just the eight who voted with the Democrats, but about 20 members who want basically legislation that can't pass.
And so if they don't get it, they vote no, then the legislation that could pass can't pass. I think this is a real challenge and I'm not quite certain how the next few months are going to work out. I will tell you, frankly, that I could not have managed a house with this sized margin as well as Kevin did.
(Snip)
Newt the RINO.
I suspect Gaetz may have really screwed things up. Bear in mind that McCarthy was actually ousted by DEMOCRATS, with the support of a handful of Far Right Republicans (in Name Only.) Democrats went home laughing.
The people are speaking! We do not want “can kickers” we want the promises kept, deficient/inflation addressed and other problems solved. He not only broke his promise to the other R reps, he lied to the people!
Most people ignore politics. They only notice when something big, like this, happens.
They are surely concluding that the House GOP is the gang that can't shoot straight.
Who benefits from that?
All of the good choices are gone. The “achievements” of the McCarthyites are illusory. Dems can swat them aside in the senate or the WH, without blowback. The house has the unique authority to cut funding. That can be effective, and can’t be characterized as shutting down the government.
"The “achievements” of the McCarthyites are illusory."
Meaning? Lets remember a couple of small things I like to call Facts. 1. The GOP has a 5 seat majority in the House (some of whom are "Moderates") 2. The Democrats Control The Senate. # The Democrats control the WH. So what Exactly was Kevin McCarthy supposed to do? He did (to quote Burt Gummer) "What He Could With What He Had."
It seems to me that there are two pretty bad possibilities here. I am not saying that either one is probable. The first is that moderate Repos get knocked off in the primaries by radicals, who then lose in the general election, resulting in Demo control. The second is that moderate Repos, foreseeing this fate, switch parties in order to avoid it, again resulting in Demo control before the election rather than after. I am hoping that the Repos just select someone else (Scalise?) from the leadership team, or a well-respected guy who is neither in the leadership or with the radicals, perhaps Tom Cole. But overall the new reality is that the radicals are pretty riled up, making "bomb-thrower" primary challenges a lot more likely. And that is dangerous.
Thing is someone who is Called a moderate (by so many) was a fairly radical Right Winger 20 years ago.
Why in gods name given the situation would Scalise take the job? A 5 seat majority and 8 members of your own caucus waiting to knock you out.
A good part of the opposition to McCarthy seems to be personal: "He can't be trusted".
And Matt Gaetz can? I'll trust McCarthy Loooooong before I trust him.
I meant that Gaetz was using "I can't trust him" as a pretext both for a first action and against a second action: he can now say that he does trust Scalise, so it's all good.
By the way, I dislike McCarthy, and absolutely cannot stand Gaetz.
Me, too.
At least that gives Gaetz an out (however disingenuous it may be) about why he might be happy to support someone like Scalise.
Also worth noting is that they could get rid of rule allowing only one member to trigger a vote. It was said at the time that this rule would make McCarthy's job impossible. Yet he lasted for 8 months. And the Gang of Eight must be getting a lot of cold shoulders, enough to make them think twice before doing the same thing all over again. Perhaps we are getting overly excited about this.
Never fear. The Dems will always be saved from their own destruction at the last minute by republicans. Always.
We are governed by morons. No wonder the Left is ascendant. We are so screwed.
From safe distance of Australia this looks chaotic.
Just waiting for McCarthy to announce his resignation.
That won’t happen
If it doesn’t, that means he has a little integrity after all. He could have practiced that integrity as Speaker, but chose not to, apparently.
I just made a $1,000 contribution to Eli Crane (not my Arizona district - but nearby) for being part of the Gang of Eight or whatever they are being called. Chaos like this is good. McCarthy went back on his word when these basically same G8 agreed to support his election as Speaker. There have to be consequences. The fact that other reps besides the G8 would not support his ouster is the problem, not the 8.