485 Comments

I don't hate them. But unless they grovel and beg for forgiveness for the vile behavior and words, I got nothing for them.

We all make mistakes. We all have tempers and say things we immediately regret. I don't see any of that coming from them.

I do see evil. Evil was allowed to creep into their hearts. They didn't fight it. They didn't try to run, they embraced it. So, I'm not cutting any slack.

And if you walked away recently, you have some 'splaining to do. You better start talking.

If this makes some of the commenters here angry, then that should be your tell. It resonated with you for a reason. Have a heart to heart with yourself before you come for me.

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I understand where you're coming from. The hysteria has made the last ten years difficult to navigate, to say the least. But the argument for offering easy forgiveness is that anger will only drive away those who are on the cusp of waking up and helping us bring back some sanity. Half the country has been caught up in the make-believe world of CNN and MSNBC. The ultimate "deprogramming" is showing them that people who don't agree with them or live in that make-believe world have a greater capacity for forgiveness and tolerance than the people they used to support.

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I hear this argument regularly. But in fairly broad interactions, I fail to meet these people "on the cusp of waking up". They seem to be in the same class as perpetual motion machines or nuclear fusion -- just around the corner but never there. (The only difference between the two analogs is that one is impossible and one has so far proven to be impossible -- but the effect on us honest folks is the same.) We have done the "we will show you how forgiving and open minded we are" shtick too many times with 100% failure rates. (We would have all been better off if they HAD locked up Hillary.)

I used to be in the "why can't we all get along" crowd -- It has been beaten out of me.

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I understand where you're coming from, but you're playing the game they want you to play. There is a middle ground between a doormat and rage.

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Not forgiving some things doesn't automatically put one in a rage. The middle ground is not forgiving them but then not becoming the raging lunatics that they've displayed this last decade. I believe the raging lunatic is who they really are inside, and it just waits for an opportunity to come out and lash at the OTHERS. Many of us are not built like that but we also don't have to forgive.

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Couldn't agree more, Lillia. From my most recent post:

"The Producers of 'Election 2024: The Battle for Freedom!' want me to vilify those with alternative viewpoints, to hate the other side. They want all of us, by the time the curtain falls — or the election is called — to be filled with such an unquestioning blind fury that we view the other side as 'less than:' less informed than ourselves, less intelligent, less than worth a conversation, less than less than less than… which ultimately, at its most frightening, ends in 'less than human.'

Once we’ve all arrived at that parched place, violence is just a lit match away."

https://marypoindextermclaughlin.substack.com/p/vote-for-the-other-side

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I admire your sound argument and wisdom.

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I am not enraged nor am I a doormat. They wanted me dead. No rage. They are all sicker than me. I am still strong and healthy. No doormat. But I am not pretending they are my friends either.

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Nobody I know who was COVID crazy wanted me dead. They acted like idiots. They bought up all the toilet paper and mistreated those who thought differently by treating them like they had the plague. But none of them wanted me dead. And most people I know who got the COVID shot are fine. Some definitely had problems. I worry about the futures of a few (will they get cancer? Will they get heart trouble?). I suspect a few people who got it died, but they got it because they believed the hype, and they should have been able to trust the agencies. So yes you are also enraged if you can’t get past this moment. There have been plenty of times in history where populations have gone off the rails. It happens. And maybe next time you’ll be on the derailed side, so a little understanding and compassion are healthy. Not to mention, we all have to live together, and the hostility doesn’t help.

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Can one forgive being publicly tarred as a "Nazi"?

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Not easily but if I believed the apology was sincere, I would try.

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Can one forgive being fed to the lions? Being burnt at the stake?

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True, true. I tell folks I am very much a Southern Baptist, culturally and philosophically, though not religiously. The reason I never allied myself with professional Atheists is that I really believe the Christian version of forgiveness is what put humanity on a path to getting to the moon in a historical blink of an eye. After a half a million years of treading water.

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sticks & stones etc - it's just all just leftists nonsense since they have nothing positive to offer the country

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Yes. It's a word. It's meant to elicit either unreasoning anger or groveling shame. You're giving them exactly what they want and you're playing their game.

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Their ridiculous attempts at insulting us are so blatantly absurd it has no bearing on me. Those are easy to overlook and ignore. They are infected with the mind virus. But the ones who pretended to be rational and used "kindness" amongst other malicious machinations, the ones who weaponized virtue, those are the snakes in the grass. I still don't hate them. But they should pay for their deviousness and lack of honor, integrity and the evil they've done to humankind. Just my humble opinion.

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Again, I don’t disagree and I think we might be talking about two different groups of people. The Brian Stelters, Joy Reids, Rachel Maddows, Hens of the View, Deborah Birxes, AOCs, etc., and their ilk out here in the real world, they know exactly what they’re doing. They are not that stupid. They get a rush from a feeling of superiority and importance. Forgiving them would be very difficult. I’d have to see a lot of soul searching. But they’re also never going to ask. But I know people who are stuck in the CNN and MSNBC bubble who truly do believe all the hype about Trump being Hitler and bought the whole COVID thing. They are basically good people. If they came around tomorrow and wanted to renew the relationship, I would be fine. I have met so many people who have no idea what’s going on under the surface. They’re not bad. They just trust the evening news.

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Nov 1Edited

It is nearly killing me ... people I KNOW are good people falling for the laziest of all demonization efforts. But if I were fed only the information they are fed, would I be different? If I were convinced someone was Hitler-in-waiting (even baby Hitler, still in a crib), it would be my duty to strangle the life out of him.

(but then that is the same defense given by the madman who murders an abortionist. Of course one would sacrifice one's freedom or even life to save a baby).

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I really think they are that stupid, in the sense of being blinded, like any cult members. Indoctrinated beyond reason.

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I disagree. I won't generalize by saying all are of one bent or another, but I do know plenty who know exactly what they're supporting, and they get a huge rush from being seen as virtuous even when they know they are not virtuous.

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In my spiritual view, there is evil and it gets taken care of by something greater than us, but like you, I'm not going to forgive. That has become such a meaningless word these days anyway. If forgiveness is defined as I'm just not going to interact with the lunatics and will remain on guard but not pursue them, then I forgive them.

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Just to be clear, I’m not pretending anything. “But they should pay for their deviousness and lack of honor, integrity and the evil they’ve done to mankind.” sure sounds pretty hateful to me. Really, all that’s missing is “I hate them”. But I guess when someone says “I don’t hate them BUT….”, they can use whatever hateful language they want and it’s no longer hateful. I didn’t know the rules but now I understand.

I am still a little confused about Mind Virus’ though. Isn’t that part of the point of the post? Fortunately, there is a cure. Sasha found it.

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Of course they should pay. Ass, gas or grass. No one rides for free.

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Good point.

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Agreed, BUT. It's like the COVID people who want us to just act like it never happened. The damage they wreaked with their petty hysterics is significant, and I need them to acknowledge the damage they've done at the same time I am open to forgiveness.

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That is precisely what I meant to convey. But I'm not sure about forgiveness until I see some real repentance. Then, to be honest I'm a touch of a pushover. I've learned to be more circumspect and my 🐂💩 meter is in fine fettle.

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Jesus Christ said from the cross of his executioners, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."

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Forgiveness doesn't mean that there aren't consequences for one's actions. We can and should forgive, but when people have acted horribly, we are not obliged to simply forget everything and return to "normal."

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Forgive and forget, uh no. I can forgive, but not forget. By forgetting you allow those who have demeaned you, slandered you, and vilified you off the hook. They are the kind of people who will simply pick up where they left off when the dust settles and return to the essence of who they really are. There must be accountability. They never forgive nor do they forget they seethe for revenge..

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Sasha clearly is distraught over what she was following. There is one that has come part way, the whistleblower from a clinic, but she still uses the meaningless trans lingo. Until her narcissistic, "look at me I'm special" cow patty pig Latin ends, no forgiveness.

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*wrought is the past tense of "wreak".

One of the most significant causes of our problems is the fact that there are no consequences.

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"Wreaked” is the correct past tense of “wreak,” meaning to cause destruction or harm.

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Not "wroked"?

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Bingo.

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I agree with PB but that doesn't put me "in a rage." It's possible to not forgive and still go about daily life and interactions with the lunatics without being angry. Some I will forgive, but it depends on many factors. I forgive the frail elderly who aren't aware of what is going on and only remember what their democratic party of old fought for back in the day. They don't realize body snatchers have taken over. But the aggressive, raging activists NEVER; every single creature who supported mangling and brainwashing children NEVER; every single creature who stomped on Title IX and girls and women's rights NEVER; every single creature who supported stomping on parental rights NEVER; the BLM activists who murdered people and burned down to cinders small businesses that their fellow citizens built and fed themselves with NEVER; the Covid hysterics who wanted to put those who asked questions in camps NEVER. There are others but the list is long. How I will deal with it is to interact with the creatures only as absolutely necessary, and smile and wave as I do that. These are the types that would have jumped on the bandwagon in 1930's/40's Germany and happily driven the cattle cars to the camps (see Covid above), or the 90's Rwandans that worked themselves into a frenzy and dragged their neighbors out of their suburban homes and chopped them up with a machete. Again, that list goes on, but at least they outed themselves this time before they reached that level of raging frenzy.

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With all due respect to PB, when you're telling someone they would have to grovel and crawl across broken glass to get your forgiveness, that's rage. And it's warranted. My sister and I spent a whole year trying to figure out what we would do if my mother got sick and the hospital wouldn't let us stay with her. Our stress levels were through the roof. I still have visceral reactions when I see people in masks, even people I know and like. I get it. But a lot of the people you're talking about overlap, and they're never going to ask for your forgiveness because they are going to die thinking they were right. So your anger is wasted.

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Ms. Gajewski,

Please tell me where I wrote, "With all due respect to PB, when you're telling someone they would have to grovel and crawl across broken glass to get your forgiveness..."

I don't recall saying that nor do I find that phrase anywhere in my comments. If you do see it, would you point me to this comment? If I did not, and I'm pretty certain I didn't (however, I could be wrong) then I believe you need to revisit my words in toto. I'm not in a rage ma'am. I'm saying, regular folks as well as talking heads have said and done outrageously vicious things and until they demonstrate that not only do they possess a transformation of their thought processes they must sincerely atone for their actions by asking me, us, to forgive them, then I will not offer forgiveness.

Offering forgiveness makes one feel better. It lets the other person off the hook from being accountable for their words, their thoughts and actions. So, then they never have to do the work themselves. I don't hate anyone. My anger is not wasted because I do not let it control me. It keeps the important fact of accountability viable.

And for the record, my issue is not completely with talking heads. I have been called a great many nasty things these last three months by my neighbors who have never met me yet felt compelled to call me names on a public online forum for which I was banned from so can never defend myself. They also printed letters to the editor of our local paper aspersing my character.

They take great glee in their words and actions. Does it enrage me? It does not. Do I hate them? I do not. They don't even know me. They've never even met me face to face. But I will not just forgive them so I can let go of their accountability. You must be accountable for your words and actions. I hold myself to this standard and therefore I hold them as well.

When you make a mistake, you must ask the other party to forgive you while demonstrating your repentance. Your true repentance. That's the hard work that they need to do. I appreciate and completely agree that this accountability requirement from myself may mean that our society remains divided. But unless they do the work, change their mind, offer a sincere and repentant apology, then there is nothing we can do as a society going forward. Surely you see and understand this concept. I appreciate your point of view Ms. Gajewski. I understand your point of view and hope that you might see mine better. Feel free to take this to DM if you prefer.

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“But unless they grovel and beg for forgiveness for the vile behavior and words.” The first line.

I apologize for adding the “broken glass.” It was a conflation of things I’d read elsewhere.

People demanding groveling are enraged. As I’ve said repeatedly, you have a right to be enraged. The insanity caused a lot of trouble. Rage is an appropriate emotion at times. It doesn’t make you less of a person. Hanging on to rage doesn’t even make you less of a person. It is simply counterproductive to moving ahead. You are a very decent person, and I’m not going to keep this argument going. I am befuddled by why people can’t be honest about their emotions. I was enraged for a while. It didn’t get me anywhere. But I was. It doesn’t make me less of a person for wanting to smash the heads of people who made the elderly die alone or made me freak out for two years about what happened if my mother landed in the hospital.

But those people are never even going to apologize and they still have more power than I do. So what do I do? Well, rage takes up energy when I could be trying to figure out how to best address the situation.

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Ma'am, respectfully, I do not think that word means what you think it means.

rage

/rāj/

noun

1.

violent, uncontrollable anger:

"her face was distorted with rage"

Similar

temper, fit of rage/fury/anger/temper, fit of bad/ill temper, towering rage, bad temper, ... more

verb

1.

feel or express violent uncontrollable anger:

"he raged at the futility of it all"

Similar

be angry, be furious, be enraged, be incensed, be infuriated.

I do not have uncontrollable anger. Please stop telling me what I feel.

I have a high degree of concienciousness, an overdeveloped sense of personal responsibility and an equally high need for fairness when possible.

I agree, it is highly unlikely any of them will have an epiphany and change their mindset. But I'm not carrying around a bunch of unresolved emotions either. I am fully aware of my feelings. I certainly have been angry at how I've been treated both personally and professionally. But to hold on to that anger is a waste of energy and emotion. I've made my decision. I'm resolute. That's just a fact.

I usually find that when one accuses another of something, one is usually guilty of the same. The old adage one finger pointing at someone leaves three fingers pointing back at yourself. I know this because I've had serious introspective sessions with myself... my conscience.

I thank you for your reply and I agree, I won't keep this discussion going.

It would be truly interesting to have Ms. Stone, yourself and me sit down, have a cuppa and shoot the shit.

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I disagree with this you dictating to someone she's in a "rage" because she has steps that have to be taken before she forgives the fascist lunatics. Your definition makes the word "rage" meaningless and feeds into queer theory. I find it ironic that you have a visceral reaction to people in masks. A person's choice to wear a mask generates zero reaction from me, and mask or no mask, once either one gets aggressive trying to intimidate or force their choice on me, all bets are off.

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Oh, good grief. "Queer theory." Rage is unreasoning anger. That's all it is. And we have had a right to feel rage. P.B. had a right to feel rage. But at a certain point, when you're starting to put things back together, rage is a useless emotion. Anger can be helpful. It keeps you wary. But rage doesn't help.

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You are the one who keeps telling another person what is in her mind and what she REALLY means with her words. She never mentioned being rageful, but you keep repeating it. I don't need a translator, and I expect others don't either.

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My problem with the argument of “forgiveness” is that people constantly leave out the most key element in there: that someone has acknowledged they need forgiveness. That acknowledgement looks like someone asking for it, or saying they are sorry, or showing true remorse even if they can’t say it. Saying or doing anything that communicates they are aware of what they did that was so wrong. It can even be in one’s demeanor and future choices without coming out and actually saying anything. But there at least needs to be some kind of visual communication that makes it clear that the person is remorseful. Sasha was one such person and this community offered “easy forgiveness”. We were and are VERY quick to forgive. That’s our side of the transaction. But the full deal requires the other side too. Had she not done what she did she never could have received that forgiveness.

I cannot and would not forgive an actual demon if one such were placed upon this earth and set about to destroy good, honest people and turn them on each other to destroy one another, because they would be delighting in their charge and continuation of their path. Their joy would come from destruction. Am I a bad person for not forgiving their evil anyway even while they are in the middle of it? Of course not. Forgiveness requires a contrite heart.

When the acknowledgement is not present it is impossible to forgive. Sure we can in our hearts by remaining hopeful someone will see the light and not letting ugly spirits grow within ourselves, but that’s only for our own benefit and no one else. We cannot actually offer forgiveness to anyone until they want it.

My faith, Christianity, clearly shows the cycle of forgiveness that even many churches get wrong in their teaching. Yes God has already forgiven all of us because he has a loving spirit BUT we cannot be saved from the punishment for our actions/choices/sin UNTIL we acknowledge we need that and accept his gift. Once we do forgiveness is instant because the heart giving it always had the capability to do so. But because we are free-will peoples, we cannot receive it without accepting it and we cannot accept it until we acknowledge we need it. So until then, we suffer the consequences and can’t be forgiven. Does that make God unforgivable? No, and thinking that just projects our own ugliness back onto Him. Everyone always thinks forgiveness is a one-way street but it’s not, not if you have true freedom of choice. Now there ARE ugly hearts that won’t grant forgiveness when it is acknowledged and sought, as I’ve experienced in my own life - and the people who should have forgiven me not only wrote me off, they continued to punish me long after I had changed. Ironically I forgave them repeatedly only to have them continue to wrong me in the same way time and again. We should not confuse the two types of people.

I offer forgiveness easily when someone acknowledges in some way that it is needed. It’s given in the blink of an eye. I recently had a long term friend from online who deeply hurt me and wronged me reach out timidly after almost three years to test the waters. I was polite but cautious. I could tell by her words she was truly sorry and did not know how to say it. So I began to just lovingly embrace her again, it was enough for me. It took her less than a couple weeks for her dam to break and for her to tell me she was amazed at my forgiving heart and she felt so bad. I just loved her more. I’ve never brought up that past that destroyed our friendship. It was unnecessary. We are reconciled and it’s one of my most beautiful friendships today. That’s how it’s supposed to work - but it requires BOTH SIDES to do the right thing. Not just one side.

Our forgiving those who have treated us cruelly all these years depends on their choices, not just our own. Until they WANT it, there ARE consequences. We don’t have to create consequences to hurt them in return, the natural ones will be hurtful enough, and we shouldn’t be or feel shame because of those consequences. We know in our hearts we will forgive, but they have to want that first. Without consequences, they will never acknowledge what is wrong.

Sasha did. She got it. And others like her did too. That’s why so many that came over to MAGA were shocked at how loving and accepting we were.

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Hey now, leave us demons out of this - we're as dumbstruck as anyone at humans losing the ability to tell girls from boys.

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Forgiveness is what we offer because it is what we would want for ourselves. Imagine that we find out at some point that Trump is playing everybody, that this man that so many have faith in is a charlatan, and here you’ve spent so much time defending him and his movement, once you realized that, what would you want? Would you want people shaking their fingers in your face, telling you, you have to earn forgiveness from people just as human as you are?

The only thing I care is that they learn. If they don’t learn, that’s a bigger problem than any sort of forgiveness. But if I see they learned, they have nothing to ask from me. It’s not like I haven’t made my own mistakes.

And we all like to think that we would have been on the right side of history. We would have hidden Anne Frank or been a station on the Underground Railroad or stood up to Joseph McCarthy or Joseph Stalin. But the reason those events happen is that utterly normal people have a tendency to go with the herd. Self preservation is a strong instinct. There’s nothing particularly evil about them. That’s the most disturbing part.

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I can offer forgiveness all day long but if it is not accepted nor wanted the cycle is incomplete. If I found I was wrong about Trump and admitted so, that admission is a sign of wanting forgiveness, so anyone withholding that forgiveness of me would indeed be wrong.

I never said anyone had to “earn” forgiveness. They simply have to acknowledge it is needed. That’s the way God set it up.

If God forgave us all then it doesn’t matter what we choose we would be going to heaven. But that’s not how forgiveness works. There are two parts. So one who doesn’t change and doesn’t acknowledge he needs forgiveness suffers the damnation. Does that make God unforgivable? No, that’s our fault, not His. He is a just God.

Forgiving others before they want it is for my own benefit, not theirs. But this talk is about them, not me. its about completing the cycle and why that’s so hard when the other side does not want it or want to change.

Now there ARE ugly hearts that won’t grant forgiveness even when it is acknowledged and sought, they demand you “earn” it as you say.

I offer forgiveness easily when someone acknowledges in some way that it is needed. It’s given in the blink of an eye. It is the same with the canyon sin creates between us and God. He places the cross down so we can cross the canyon. Just because the cross is laid we don’t magically appear on the other side. We have to CHOOSE to cross it!

My friend chose to reach out to me and in doing so it was crossing a divide created between us and I immediately showed my forgiveness. I missed her. I had forgiven her in my heart years earlier, but I couldn’t arrogantly tell her that when she didn’t think she did anything wrong. That’s how it’s supposed to work - but it requires BOTH SIDES to do the right thing. Not just one side.

Our forgiving those who have treated us cruelly all these years depends on their choices too, not just our own. Until they WANT it, there ARE consequences. There WILL be a great divide. We don’t have to create additional consequences to hurt them in return, or demand they earn our forgiveness, the natural consequences and true justice of law will be hurtful enough, and we shouldn’t be shamed or feel shame because of those consequences. Or be accused of having an unforgiving heart. We know in our hearts we will forgive, but they have to want that. Without consequences, they will never acknowledge what is wrong.

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I heard someone say that a more effective interpretation of the phrase, “turn the other cheek,” is “the kind act of not reminding the offender of their harmful action”, rather than “inviting more abuse to the other cheek”.

This idea opens up a path to the spirit of true forgiveness.

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It is not kind to not remind the offender of their harmful action, it must be done so that the harm is not repeated.

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Yes. Isn’t that a basic tenet of all 12 step programs? They must acknowledge the harm they have caused before recovery is possible.

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It's actually common sense, it's part of what is known as accountability - calling someone to account for their actions requires them to be reminded of their bad acts.

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Yes. But you might be inadvertently mischaracterizing what that process looks like.

I have a decent amount of experience with this because I’ve been very involved in a 12-step program for the last six years, which quite literally saved my life. I’ve helped dozens of men go through the process.

I’m not a saint by any stretch of the imagination. I just understand that I don’t have the luxury that “normal” people (non-alcoholics) have of hanging on to resentments or engaging in justified anger. I’m very clear, through experience, that resentment will lead me back to a drink, and if I drink, I will die.

It’s up to me to go back through my life and do the self-reflection required to see where I was wrong and correct my part in the harm.

If I have a resentment towards someone, that’s a pretty good clue that I had a part in the situation. Sometimes my part looks like holding onto anger years after an event happened, reliving it. Even if the offender carries 99% of the blame, I have to identify my part and make amends for the harm I have done.

I’ve never come about this knowledge by someone telling me what I did to them. When I get sober and go back through my life, it’s clear; I know in my heart who I hurt.

At the time I committed the harm, I felt totally justified in my actions because I was very sick and almost always acting out of self-interest. Sometimes this was a defensive move that I adopted in childhood, but it is still my responsibility to make things right.

Paradoxically, it’s through self-interest (I don’t want to die an alcoholic death) that I start to have real concern for others.

That was lengthy, but I hope it sheds some light and maybe someone will find it useful.

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Or this interpretation of “turn the other cheek”: At the time, a master would hit a slave as a backhand across the slave’s right cheek. In contrast, a master would strike another master—an equal— forehand, thus hitting their left cheek (their other cheek).

.

Perhaps “Turn the Other Cheek” is a suggestion that you insist on being treated as a free person, an equal, not a slave.

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Hate is a strong word. I have no problem putting down rabid animals, but I don't hate them. I have no problem spraying a wasp nest with poison because i know the damage they can do. The same thing with a fire ant bed, or a collection of water that allows mosquitos to breed. These things are all destructive and have to be eliminated, just like the Demoncat party.

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They are beneath hate. They are weeds. Pull them.

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A wife can say a lot of nasty things to her husband, and apologize and then they can kiss and make up. But ‘i have always hated how you kiss. You make my skin crawl when you touch me. You always have. I married you only for your money’. You can’t apologize from that. There is no going back. That is where I am at with a lot of former acquaintance/friends. They didn’t disagree with us. They said they hate us, and they want us dead. Yeah, that thought is still there.

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They see you just as evil hence why we have this standoff.

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Well, that the point. When you dehumanize a group, it’s easier to harm them.

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I see a lot of hate and passion. GOP has a fragile collation bound by the utter hate of Democrats but achieving their ends might break the tense alliance. I am not saying they will go back to being democrats they will forever hate their guts, but they won't vote if they get pissed off.

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We don't hate Democrats. We simply want them to leave us alone. To stop trying to run our lives and take away our freedoms constantly. But, they can't help themselves. It's their nature to want to dominate other people and force us to abide by their rule. That, I cannot abide.

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I disagree that this is a fragile coalition of people who hate democrats, though there are exceptions. I feel righteous indignation toward those who abuse their public service to target enemies. There needs to be accountability, but not retaliation or retribution- ESPECIALLY among the bureaucratic leadership.

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You know retribution will happen its the red meat to the base.

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Wild retribution against anything/anyone that dared break lockstep has been ongoing “red-meat” for the blue side for years.

From cancelling people’s careers and private lives, to obscene lawfare attacks. Wild hit pieces in major media outlets, to politically motivated rioting and violence in American cities, Dems and their allies have destroyed countless lives. Wrongthink/wrongspeak have been hated, hunted and punished from every corner since Hillary deemed half the country “deplorables.” (People she still advocates should be forced into re-education.)

Retribution for all this, but in the reverse direction could go wild for *years* without coming close to an even playing field.

Blue side has developed an insatiable taste for blood.

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Yup

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Drop and give me twenty.

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Well put

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I hate them. They are worthless turds. All of them. Arrogance and ignorance walk hand in hand.

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Oct 31
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Revenge by MAGA people should not be a fantasy - it needs to become reality.

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LOOK at the profile folks. TROLL

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Have fun being miserable for at least 12 years.

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I am a well-educated retired teacher who will proudly vote for President Trump. What kind of leader would call half of his fellow Americans “ garbage”? I realize his cognitive dissonance affects his intellect and his lack of vocabulary, but his remark is indefensible.

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As people reach Biden's age they sometimes lose their filter and say things they would not if their filter was still working. Call it cognitive dissonance or a common aspect of some older folk, but with the filter off you get to know how the truth of how the person thinks and feels.

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I am an older folk 87 years old to be exact but I do not believe that I suffer from cognitive dissonance or whatever it is you call it. Biden suffers from diagnosed dementia which many of us do not. So please don't say

many older adults which is such an insult to those of us who are fighting for peace and unity and love in this world. I hate these generalizations no matter how they're applied or from w h o m.They are unfair to everybody who is called garbage as well as everybody who is called an older person who has no filter.

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You are right about not connecting Biden's anger and lies. What I have learned by having a parent who had dementia, is that the "real person" comes out well before documented dementia. Angry people become very nasty, even violent. Loving people cry easily and are frail. Many people can see the signs of early dementia, as we did when Biden was running for President in 2020. People, who don't know just think because he is old, he is confused, but it isn't age, it is an illness.

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Glad you are doing well at 87. If you review my post you will see I said "sometimes" so clearly it doesn't apply to everybody, certainly not to you. May your blessings continue.

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My filter is that I give a shit. If I don't give a shit, poof, filter is gone.

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That's a good one. Made me laugh out loud.

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i EAT FILTERS FOR BREAKFAST.

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My Grandma (Dad's Ma), lived to 98, mind sharp as a razor. There was a large picture on her wall of here school mates from the early 20's--all around 5 years old...at 98ish she still knew everyone's name, nicknames, stories

Anyway, when Gram passed away, my wife and I thought that she'd just had enough of burying everyone she knew, son, daughter, granddaughter, husband, etc..it got so hard for her.

But, yeah, I agree, don't generalize 'old people.' My 10 year old has more sense than some people I know in their 40s...my Gram was sharper than most 20-30 somethings in her 90s.

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I do understand because I am 83.5 years old.

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Because when you get old you can't remember anything.

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I understand because I am 83.5 years old.

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Don’t call it cognitive dissonance, that’s an entirely different thing. I think you mean cognitive decline perhaps?

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i CALL IT COGNITION.

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I’m waiting for him to slip up and say something to the extent of “too bad we missed.”

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Oct 30Edited

What is mind-boggling, is that Democrats don't get that if they succeeded in convincing folks that Donald Trump is a Nazi Hitler-in-waiting, the first in line to actually take Trump out would be rightwing, conservative, patriotic, American veterans. It would be our duty (the only moral dilemma is would we hesitate to take baby Hitler out in his crib, if we had the chance).

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True. Patriots want righteousness to prevail. Not the right. If Trump or Vance or anybody else in their orbit were shown to be an actual dictator, God help them. No leader or army in the history of civilization has been successful in holding territory long term without the will of the governed.

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He probably has, but it's been edited out

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Cognitive dissonance would not be the term. Cognitive impairment, yes. He's barely there and we don't even talk about who's actually running the country. The media is complicit and treasonous.

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And how old was Biden when he ranted on C-Span about protecting his women from the irredeemable black teenage boys who were the targets of his crime bill?

The establishment media has been operating as his “filter” for a long time. They’ve managed to memory-hole his worst moments, but a lot of us still know what we’ve heard and seen.

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I think Joe and Jill are very angry with the left. The Bidens sold their souls for power, and followed the activist agenda. In return, they were kicked to the curb. These comments so detrimental to Kamala are a passive aggressive form of payback.

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100% Jude!!!! I said the same thing to my husband this morning. It was not a mistake. It was a deliberate strike to make her look even worse than she does already. This move was directed at Obama & Pelosi & Schumer & HRC & Harris-----the cabal that kicked him to the curb. I'm sure Jill thinks up the most effective weapons.

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Well, to be fair, I think that the Bidens violated the implicit deal that was put in front of them back in 2020: Be President for a single term and, then, hand the reins to someone else. Remember: they referred to Biden as a "transitional" leader. But, I think that the Bidens became a little too comfy with presidential power; it enriched their family (illegally), and scratched an itch that Biden had for 50 years. So, they refused to budge. Which left the Democrats in a bind: Biden was clearly not functional, and they just couldn't hide it. Still, yes, you can tell that the Bidens are angry about getting kicked to the curb but, frankly, they deserved it.

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aLL THE SOONER WE CAN BREAK GROUND ON THE bIDEN PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

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That's what Denocrats do, use people and discard them when they're no longer useful.

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Somebody once used this phrase: "Democrats bury their political dead; Republicans dig them up."

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dR. Frankenstein.

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It's possible but impossible to prove. The fact that he makes such blunders, though, is the very reason it's been reported that they are continually trying to blow him off from having any involvement in her campaign. It's hard to imagine that he holds no animosity.

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But it's so typical of the people with whom they associate. What's that saying about lying down with dogs?

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I'm not sure he really meant to. I listened to the tape. But . . . as Sasha Stone points out . . . if we hold them to the same standards they hold Trump and the Republicans or really anyone they don't like, yes, it becomes indefensible.

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Lillia, like you, I imagine we've all listened to the recorded commentary he made. What within it gives you doubts?

I agree that his cognitive state can certainly be used to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he did say what he said. It wasn't ambiguous.

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Here is how one could interpret the sentence: "The only garbage I see floating around is his supports' [garbage]." It's almost as bad, but not quite.

I tend to agree that he probably meant Trump supporters because he's elderly, he has no filter, and he likes acting like a tough guy with the trash talk (pardon the pun).

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I see. Hmmm. I heard he clarified his statement, but I didn't actually hear what his clarification was. Was that it?

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His office sent out a tweet (https://x.com/JoeBiden/status/1851436643498037614) and his staff "clarified" with a "transcript," which you can find at the end of this article (https://nypost.com/2024/10/30/us-news/bidens-garbage-comment-due-to-missing-apostrophe-white-house/).

And, yes, that was sort of it. His office said he was referring to the comedian. The pronouns are kind of a mess. Read for yourself. I'm not sure the excuse works.

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Let’s not kid ourselves. Joe Biden isn’t keying text into X/twitter.

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mAYBE YOU COULD WRITE A BOOK ABOUT IT. oH WAIT. aLINSKY ALREADY DID.

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You would have to have that deeply rooted feeling and attitude in order to vocalize it. Biden's dementia just has made him more honest. He can't control as easily his deceptions, which he was very good at as a lifetime politician. Kamala is also very deceptive. In that way, she is a perfect politician, though maybe not adequately shrewd. Trump, on the other hand, is also painfully truthful (with some braggadocio and exaggeration thrown in). And it hurts him.

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My brilliant father was consumed by dementia during his final months. A lot of what he said was gibberish but occasionally he came up with some zingers. Having often been the subject of his evaluations when he was coherent, I saw his late stage zingers coming from the coherent part of his remaining consciousness. I see Biden's comment the same way. He meant it.

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💯

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Trump truthfulness is a breath of fresh air from all the clown show political double speak we have been exposed to for decades. Don't be offended by direct and precise facts & statements.

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Lol. I wouldn't call Harris "the perfect politician," unless you mean that her moral emptiness makes her ideal.

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Perfect vassal.

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yES I THINK IT HURTS HIM PAINFULLY. tHAT'S WHY HE GOT HIS EAR BLOWN OFF.

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I was going to write it off to what ever it is he is suffering from but remembered he's said some foul things in the past before his condition started, so I'm gonna go with this is just Joe.

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Agree, and a retired teacher here as well!

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And he meant it.

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That Biden said this is unsurprising and insignificant; everyone with his eyes open has seen that this is how Democrats have perceived non-Democrats for a hundred years.

The scandal worth our attention is the media's hasty editing of the transcript and declaration that Biden didn't really say that. This from the same media who salivate at the chance to turn sketchy audio into an "N-word" or some other scandal that it clearly wasn't if the speaker has an "R" by his name.

The media behavior is also not new at all, but it's more likely to open the eyes of the blind.

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With the White House ‘edit’ I could help think again of the 60 Minutes edit.

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💯💯💯💯💯

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Joe has always had a nasty streak just under the surface. Calling everyone garbage is completely in character. Pre old age he might have kept that remark to behind closed doors. But is accurately reflects how he feels.

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Reminds me of Hillary's "basket of deplorables" comment a few weeks before the 2016 election

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Just curious, have you listened to what Trump says about half of the country?

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Of course Biden meant what he said - his history of this kind of remark goes back quite a while. Don't forget the infamous 'Red Speech' in Philly, or the post George Floyd verdict speech. I've never believed the kindly old grandpa image. One thing I've always always liked about Trump is that he may criticize opponents but he does not denigrate average American people the way Democrats do.

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Bingo

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Indeed. Biden is a hateful, spiteful man. He would destroy anybody that goes up against him, given the chance.

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I just read a book by Mike McCormick who was a White House stenographer, and he says Biden is a malevolent man.

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"A truly great society is one in which being unpopular can be safe." -- Words we can actually live by.

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Words for which the Constitution was written. America, at its founding, was a Land for Misfits

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Exactly.

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Dr Drew last night on Gutfeld commented that until a few years ago the only people he remembers calling other people Nazi or Hitler were patients in mental institutions and now it's normalized by the left.

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I once asked my manager why a certain famous band didn’t write good songs anymore, and he said because they take limousines.

That sums up what you just said. They aren’t part of real life anymore so they can only write illusions.

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And THAT pretty well sums up the problem with the shining entity formerly known as "the west."

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tHE WEST IS A SNAKE FEASTING ON IT'S TAIL

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What is truly delicious is how the media are rushing to cover up Biden's remarks as "mis-speaking" and the White House is altering the transcript, yet they are only exposing their glaring hypocrisy of misreporting Trump's comments on Charlottesville for years, now known as the "fine people hoax". The tapes clearly showed he was not calling Nazis "fine people" but the media ran with the lie anyway, showing only part of his speech out of context. Now it's coming back to bite them as they can't have it both ways.

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Harris and her supporters are STILL using the "fine people" lie and the media is still letting them get away with it. Man what a sick place we've gotten to.

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She is a disgusting liar.

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Concisely accurate.

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Yeah, they're still trumpeting project 2025, too, even though it's been debunked as a white paper from the Heritage Foundation and the author resigned. I even got a pamphlet in the mail warning about project 2025.

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Ah, but you see, the Left has an immutable moral high ground (immutability being the key), so any conceivable action in support of the Left against the Right is a noble act!

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I’ve often wondered at the phenomenon of people who, for any number of reasons, find themselves in an unhappy marriage, and rather than just filing for divorce, come to the conclusion that they have to actually murder their spouse! It is such an insane and incredible leap to come to such an irrational conclusion! How on earth did they get from “there” to “THERE”?!

That’s exactly how I see the Democrats in their highly volatile, vitriolic and irrational attacks on their political opposition. It’s soo out of balance, to say the least, but speaks to something far darker and more desperate coming from deep within them. Fear? Guilt? Shame? It is definitely not coming from a good place, and should be a bright red flag to any one of sound mind to stay as far away from them as possible.

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I think it’s absolutely fear and even self-loathing. They fear their own faults, so they project them onto others. It’s easier that way.

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Literally EVERYTHING negative the Democrats say about Trump is stuff they are doing themselves. Even if we had no other reason to consider Sigmund Freud an important thinker, the concept of “projection” would be enough in itself.

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Lincoln has entered the chat.

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Doing damage control, this morning Harris has stated that "I strongly disagree with any criticism of people based on who they vote for,"

So, let me get this straight. Harris thinks Trump is a Fascist and a Nazi, but she doesn't criticize his voters?

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Indeed. I'm coming around more to the idea that she's just dumb. A smarter politician could have come up with some Cliff notes version of the woman at the well story, those who are without sin, throwing the first stone, Mathew's splinter in your brothers' eye (but ignoring your own) , and added the Jesus advice to love and pray for your enemy (also in Matthew). Kamala? Not a chance. Like provisionally with stipulation, agreeing to 1 not three hours on 'Rogan', and of course, she'd be late for that too, she is just so very deficient in thought...

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this is another example of why she knows she can't appear on the Joe Rogan podcast. He would politely but insistently press her to explain the contradiction, and she knows she can't. Kamala is so hypocritical. She will routinely say we need to move past the divisive rhetoric, and in the next breath say Trump is a Nazi Fascist. Just pathetic, really! Maybe Biden, cognitively impaired though he is, actually could have turned in a better campaign than Kamala has.

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She only quotes the Bible when someone else has done the research, written it out for her to memorize, explained it to her in simple terms, and prayed she gets it right when she regurgitates it in context. She wouldn’t know Jesus if he appeared beside her.

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Dumb and evil are not incompatible.

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iT'S COMPATIBLE WITH A BRAZEN SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT

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Maybe she is willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, that they have been deceived by the constant lying that Trump does.

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By definition, calling someone "Hitler" is the lowest you can go and is the declaration that he should be assassinated for the greater good. Once that declaration was made (a long time ago), Democrats forfeited the right to complain about being insulted or threatened, because they had already declared war.

Naturally, they pretend that this is not the case. Even as they repeat the "Hitler" charge, they act as though comeuppance of any form is unacceptable. Many of them are stupid enough to actually believe this, but the thought leaders understand that what matters is whether YOU believe it.

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Who are the thought leaders? Name names.

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The Democrats are starting to remind me of a cringey movie Woody Allen made in the 1970s. It was his first attempt at a non-humorous movie, and boy was it non-humorous. It was about a family where everybody hated everybody. "Interiors" I think it was called. Bingo, Democrats today!

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No. The Dems don't hate everybody. They hate MAGA.

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I've never played the left vs right game and have always had friends of all political leanings. I campaigned for Bernie and now I'm voting for Trump. I didn't vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020 (I never voted for Biden or Obama either) but I never had TDS and could see that the media lied about Trump and I would call it out. I had a preponderance of friends on Facebook who constantly posted hateful memes about Trump and Trump supporters. I was not one these people. I found this behavior ridiculous and said so.

Then COVID hit. This changed everything. The Leftists across the globe became the authoritarians, some tyrannical. They were simply awful. In fact they got so bad, I completely deleted Facebook and Twitter and went out of communication with almost everyone. They act is if nothing happened at all. We are still recovering from a collective trauma of crimes against humanity and they don't even see it. It blows my mind.

Be grateful that you are free thinking and though people on the Left are propagandized, delusional, and bitter, try to have (if you can) some empathy for their plight. Yes, they are condescending and smug (unwarranted), but they are not in good shape. They're not doing well.

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With thanksgiving right around the corner, grateful seems like a good suggestion. But I think context is everything. Nothing happens in a vacuum. In North Korea look what happens to free thinking Warmbier. Free thinking people in North Korea are sent to gulags. That's why North Koreans like propaganda so much. It tells them what to think so they can stay away from gulags.

But, while grateful of the context of living not in North Korea but America, what keeps me safe and free is my ineffectuality. If I were a real threat to society, like Trump, the full faith and credit of the deep state would fall down upon me like a lead zeppelin. Only a billionaire like Trump can parley with the Feds who can literally print money while everyone else has to make money through business. No, it's not a fair fight.

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That tells you that Joe and Kamala are NOT friendly. Perhaps Joe was trolling her with his comments.

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100%

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What tells you that Brutus and Caesar weren't butt buddies?

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I thought we were all deplorable, white supremacist, fascist Nazi garbage. That's a compilation of the epithets Hillary and Biden have used for us.

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Oct 31
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A little angry, are we?😏

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You are the troll, Shawn. Your profile reveals it so. We can also tell you just ‘found’ this stack due to its RCP posting, and your jonny-come-lately comments. Most of us here are long time subscribers, and you sir, are decidedly not.

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Right wing media spreading BS? That remark makes it obvious you don't read right-wing media. Even Fox News gives fair time to opinions from the other side. It's the leftists who refuse to listen to the other side, which is why they so easily believe the lies they are fed, and why they don't actually know the facts about the BLM riots, January 6 or who are the true election deniers.

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We understand that if the Dems win bad things happen to grandma.

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It certainly does make them bad people. I walked away and thus left my circle of friends standing in the crazy. They just got crazier. Only my best friend still does things with me, and he is disgusted that I think logically, historically, and liberally. There’s a lot of tension.

They made a choice the same as you and I did. We walked away because we could see wrong and we wouldn’t be part of it. We are all responsible for our choices.

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It's a mass psychosis. You cannot blame the crazy for being crazy. But they have left a lot of wreckage in their wake.

And, yes, in their heart of hearts, they do see Trump supporters as "garbage," but that's okay because they're not judging them based on skin color or sexuality, but based on ideas. (That was sarcasm BTW. It's hard to tell sometimes.) Never mind that those "ideas" would be very familiar to liberals of even twenty years ago. But they need to realize the Democrat Party they support today isn't run by liberals. It's run by globalists and neo-feudalists (which are much the same). And they might occasionally sound like liberals, but their base programming is as illiberal as it comes.

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Good comment! Neo feudalists! That’s why they hate Trump. He wants America to prosper and not be part of that. No individual freedoms!

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Trump stands for individual freedom. Dromedary stands 4 collective fweedom.

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💯

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They remember nothing. They forget nothing.

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Some obviously do, or Trump wouldn't stand a chance.

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I give Trump an ice cube’s chance in hell

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So much love, tolerance, and unity. Their brains have been broken by garbage information diets. MSM is the junk food equivalent of news: https://yuribezmenov.substack.com/p/substack-info-diet-tips-unplug-from-matrix?utm_source=publication-search

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They don’t even pretend to be tolerant and loving anymore. Now they just believe their hatred is justified.

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Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. I have listened to many of Trump's speeches. He talks about the unhinged Left and disparages the leaders like Pelosi, Schiff, et al, but I have never heard him talk meanly about Democrat voters. In fact, most I have heard he says that those of all political stripes are welcome. Witness Musk, Gabbard and Kennedy to name a few.

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Exactly.

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The gross disrespect on the part of elites for the working class has really shocked me. I think Trump will win because its the best way to poke the eyes of the folks who feel so superior to the average American. Calling people Nazis, racists, homophobic and garbage is not going to convince them that your way & candidate is the best alternative for the country. I hope a Trump win will actually add speed to the pendulum.

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And the Democrats used to be the party of the working class! Now they're the party of the rich upper class.

The craziest thing is that they seem to have learned NOTHING from the 2016 election. How did that deplorables tactic work for them last time?

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I would rather be called deplorable than to be despicable.

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What about the other way around?

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If you really study history, you see the Democrat Party was never the party of the working class. They found a way to make it seem so for a time, but their focus never really changed from their inception: maintain power and wealth by any means possible.

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A trump win will make time go by faster.

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I have one liberal friend with whom I can go deep into this topic, and she recently confessed that yes, she thinks of Trump supporters as toothless rednecks, living in trailers & marrying their sisters, somewhere in flyover country. I confess I felt that way at one time as well. When I was a liberal. The impoverished Appalachians are an entirely forgotten (or when not forgotten, reviled) demographic among the American intelligentsia. Those folks are white and uneducated, which makes them beneath contempt. If you're any other color and uneducated, you get a free pass. Why? I do not know. It runs deep in the country's consciousness.

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But I thought poverty wasn't supposed to be a character flaw!?! Wasn't that what liberals were always lecturing to us?

When did they become illiberals? And as far as toothless rednecks, how does your friend explain Elon Musk, RFK Jr., Dr. Phil, Vivek Ramaswamy, Tulsi Gabbard, Jamie Dimon, Bill Ackman, etc. etc.?

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It's getting harder and harder for her. I often find that just as I am about to pin her down she says "I just don't like him, that's all. I just don't like him." The edifice among my well educated liberal friends is starting to crumble now. They're sounding less sarcastic and superior than they used to. Muwahahaaa!

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I think it’s deep shame for America’s true roots. Most of the people who fought for independence were bunch of uneducated farmers living in wild, untamed country. Yes, very smart and educated people formed the government. But the mass movement behind it was filled with drunken conspiracies. There’s a reason Europeans think we’re uncouth.

The “elites” this time around are own countrymen, but they resemble out of touch British aristocrats more than the wild eyed American hoodlums who drove them out.

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Hey Leah, 4 of my brothers served active duty military and there are a lot of other veteran subscribers to Sasha also. Hundreds of guys in my neighborhood served. The vast majority of the military is lower-middle class Christians. Upper class were extremely rare.

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I have a deep love for veterans—have known, loved, and dated many. Grew up next to Camp Pendleton, with young men coming our home for holidays and Bible study. Got a special place in my heart for enlisted Marines—another selling point for JD for me! Our enlisted military are the backbone of our country, and have always been. Ooh ra (or hoo ya if you like Army)

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Thanks. I meant to write “4 of my brothers and I served …”.

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Libertarian, if your time allows, check out this chat from a week ago w/ what I think will be the GOP’s 2028 presidential nominee. This is a long podcast but shows me perhaps the 1st authentic politician of my lifetime. Also, there’s a funny joke about Marine Corp boot camp being ‘the original Ozempic’ ;)

https://youtu.be/vd8mmTDDqAs?si=pb5QF_6LLzqwpyMw

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Very insightful point! You 100% nailed it. WE are the revolutionaries. So ironic given I'm old enough to remember when liberals were the rebels. No more.

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They’re racist is why.

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and those same people stood up for Clinton when he had to testify with some honesty about the Lewinski deal. They felt his pain, back, I suppose. Kamala shows so little, and what she shows is so obviously false, few really care about what happens to her.

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I live in a blue state and make it a rule to never talk politics. I choose not to let it be a barrier to the people around me. A very dear friend of mine (life-long Democrat of Boomer age) recently told me she and her husband would like to move back to her home state of TN because it has become so expensive in this state. "But," she said, in all seriousness, "we can't bear the thought of living with neighbors who would be Trumpers."

I guess she can't even imagine that someone she knows and loves would ever vote for Trump. Or that Trump voters are regular people who (gasp!) might even be good neighbors. Suffice it to say that I am not shocked for a moment that Biden called Trump supporters garbage. It's been going on for a long time. Classic straw-man objectification of the "other." Very odd that this comes from the "liberal, tolerant" side now. I wish we could have some rational, calm discussions of why we differ with the other side, but I've learned from experience that it all just disintegrates to trite, hateful invectives against Trump the man without any ability to explain why there might be some intelligent reasons to support him.

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I grew up in TN and you can assure your friend that there are liberals there, but you might have to look a little harder to find them than you would in, say, Austin or Palo Alto where you'd be tripping over them. :)

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Slaves in the Deep South were often taught to look down on poor white trash - those who owned no slaves themselves. When you read the WPA slave narratives from the 1930s, this attitude often comes through, even 70+ years after the Civil War.

Slave owners often expressed love or respect for some of their slaves, but never for their poor white neighbors.

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Interesting perspective!

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I hope she doesn't consider you a toothless redneck. Clearly you don't live in a trailer. Do these people not get out much?

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I am a total mystery to her. It's like she's confident there's a fatal flaw somewhere in my psyche, and she engages with me in attempt to find it. :)

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There IS a fatal flaw, you just don't know it yet, bwahhahhahha.

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Love to see JDV stick it to them.

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Communazis don’t like it when they are deprived of what they think is their birthright to ‘rule’ over everyone else.

Why the race isn't as close as you think: With one week to go, analyst CRAIG KESHISHIAN predicts the polls are missing a hidden voter surge

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14013063/trump-harris-early-vote-swing-states-polls.html

Having said that - GET OUT THERE AND VOTE!!!!

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We voted....and got a text notification from the state yesterday it was received by the county recorder

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I see you are above name calling. 🤦‍♂️

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Answered at the top of the thread.

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